please jesus is god ,,your not going to put all the calvinists in same basket are you

that is no differnt from puting all the carasmatic in the benni hin basket ,,its extreamly judgmentel to do either

what basket do we put the carsamatic,who holds to maby four points that calvinists hold to

sister i understand your issues with joe

but surly to tar with the same brush savana

maby we can alow for some inperfect conduct in savana ,,like we do in our selfs

love our nabour as our selfs

hey sister ,,i see god as being onipatent ,he knows all things,, he died for those who he knew would come to him ,for he drew them to himself ,and those are the ones who his father gave him .....they would be the elect of god would they not ,,,,

blessings

Dear Brother Gary, this present church has NOT studied Church History as they should.

They will not take into consideration what the early church fathers that sat under the Apostles wrote but they'll believe anyone that wrote ANYTHING after 1500 and believe that Calvin was our saviour from the RCC. THAT is not true.
The 5 pts of Calvin came with Calvin - though he took a small smidget of what he taught from Augustine - but Augustine was during the time when the RCC was on it's way.

It's difficult to discuss these things with anyone that hasn't truly read Church History and take a man's interpretation of Scripture verses rather than study what was written from the beginning from the Apostles and those that sat under them, alone.

Yes, I do see "foreknowledge" in His Word, for the Jews and for the Gentiles that He foreknew would come to Him and remain faithful unto the end. Those that He calls His "elect".

Rom 8:29 For whom He did foreknow

Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away His people which He foreknew.

1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father

Read His Words, "the ones who the Father gave Him" is where He was speaking about His Apostles and then He goes on to speak about those that would believe in Him Because of their words. [Jn 17]


Bless you!!

sister that is a wide stroke of the brush to say that the preasent church has not studied church history

but tho many have , many believe what the apostal paul prophecide day and night for three years ,that savage wolves would came in not sparing the flock

and also they bare in mind that there wrighings were not infalable like scripture ,,,,so scripture in there eyes still holds athoraity ,,many of the church father taught what we all no to be false teachings ,,,example baptismal regeneration ,,works salvation,,false teachings on the attrubutes and the nature of god

we can only glean from there writings as all the other saints like weasly whitfield ,ect

i read his words the ones who he gave in my eyes ,,are the apostals and those who would believe through there words

and many saint has believed this ,and not believed this

surly your not saying we all must believe exactly what you believe ,,,,,that goes againsnt church history,,and what the chruch father believed ,wich was also diverse


blessings

Hi again Gary. What I Don't believe is Any of the 5 to 7 pts of Calvinism. I don't think you see that it's not that we all must "agree with me" [an unfair statement there, Gary] - but if the person that posted the OP can post something against Arminians - I believe that gives us that are not Calvinists the right to say that we do not believe in Calvinism -- Not his 5 pts nor 7 pts and if we don't believe these pts, we should not be personally attacked.
To cover your other post --- I can easily say to someone "Don't blame GOD for your sin" and not attack their person with 'assumptions' - but both Joe and Savannah consistently attack the persons that don't agree with them and make statements about those people that aren't true and then say that the person shouldn't defend themselves. That's incredulous - and I can say that and still feel a great amount of love for their souls, with His Love, Brother Gary.
Not all of the ECF taught what you are rightly saying are heresies. My point is that, whenever anyone posts the ECF [the ones that were right-on, that sat under the direct teachings of the Apostles] they are ignored and Calvin and Co are believed instead regardless of what they are saying - which is mostly just their 'own' words and not backed with sufficient Scripture - as this first article is very long-winded with a person's 'own' words - as many do - go on and on and on without speaking mainly Scripture as Should be done and though it has been proven out with Church History and even by Calvinists themselves, that Calvin's beliefs were not found in the early Church, prior to Calvin.

G'day, Gary.

See! You've proved my point, again - and again, in your own words, stating plainly that I'm not "saved". Didn't think you'd prove my point and my words so conclusively - you poor fellow - hasn't anyone ever told you that there's a danger in judging another's salvation?
"Hit the ball - not the man" - but you're incapable of keeping even that simple rule. Poor guy.
You do indeed have my sympathy and that, Sincerely.

"Whosoever will"

Joh 12:32 "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, Will Draw All men unto me."

[No excuses from any man when they stand before Him. All are drawn, since He's been "lifted up"]


Joh 1:6,7 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that All men through him Might believe.


Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for Every man.


1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


1Jn 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.


2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.


Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


Whosoever will, "Come".

I've never questioned your Salvation so your challenge doesn't make sense to me and I don't call judgment on anyone - that's His job [Rom 12:19] - but if there ever comes a day that you'd like to discuss Doctrine with 'Scriptures only' and no personal attacks, as the rules say - I'd love to!