| Poster | Thread |
rnieman
Member
Joined: 2008/10/24
Posts: 146
| | Re: | | Kripsy you're right those writings are not inspired, but non the less carry definite value and provide us with Church History. By the way I believe what I posted had the source and the gentlemen that compiled the list as well. Finally I also agree that a sentence here can be taken out of context. My point is that Pre and Post Nicene almost exclusively held to what would be considered a libertarian free will position. Obviously Augustine was not one of them that held to that.
Thanks, Russ |
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 2012/5/7 12:20 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Quote:
Hi Savannah, I'm curious, what would furninshing ECF's on baptism prove or not prove?
What it would show is that many of them believed in regenerational baptism, and infant baptism for salvation. There is no Biblical support for either, and surely you would disagree with both of these teachings. Therefore what it would show is that it was possible for a majority of early church fathers to get it wrong on any number of issues. Therefore citing the early church fathers is not always the solid ground that we think it is.
By the way, it's a very common misconception for people to think that Reformed Theology (i.e. Calvinsim) does not teach free will. In fact, it does. An unregenerate man has a choice to make. The problem is that according to scripture the unregenerate man is dead. He has no choice but to choose sin. A dead man can not change himself. Only God can. Once God touches a man's heart that man is then enabled by God to choose obedience.
Krispy |
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| 2012/5/7 12:54 | |
rbanks
Member
Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1330
| | Re: | | quote
The problem is that according to scripture the unregenerate man is dead. He has no choice but to choose sin. A dead man can not change himself. Only God can. Once God touches a man's heart that man is then enabled by God to choose obedience.
quote
Here is were the problem comes in at that many leave out man's responsibility according to the scriptures.
Blessings...from brother rbanks |
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| 2012/5/7 13:00 | Profile |
rbanks
Member
Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1330
| | Re: | | Whether they know it or not, the teachings of many in the Calvinist movement are making God responsible for people being lost and ultimately perishing. The bible never makes God responsible because He gives everybody a measure of faith. There are some who refuse to act on it and others who reject it and God holds them responsible for not believing, because He desires all to be saved.
Blessings
from brother rbanks
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| 2012/5/7 13:12 | Profile |
hmmhmm
Member
Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4994
Sweden
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| 2012/5/7 13:31 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Quote:
Here is were the problem comes in at that many leave out man's responsibility according to the scriptures.
Right, man is totally responsible for his behavior. True Reformed Theolgy... and the Bible... teach that man is absolutely responsible for his actions while God is absolutely sovereign, and that while all men are required to repent etc., SIN has robbed them of the power to do so.
Quote:
Whether they know it or not, the teachings of many in the Calvinist movement are making God responsible for people being lost and ultimately perishing.
No, thats not true. Thats a misconception based upon a misunderstanding of the Doctrines of Grace. God is NOT the author of sin, and sin is what condemns a man... Calvinism teaches that. Perhaps some "hyper-Calvinist" teach what you are saying, but thats not what Reformed men like MacArthur, Spurgeon, Jonathon Edwards, Calvin or Sproul teach. Not even close.
Krispy |
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| 2012/5/7 13:34 | |
Christinyou
Member
Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.
| | Re: | | Amen Krispy,
Praise God He has given me His will in Christ Jesus. My free will, will only take me to one place; Hell.
In Christ: Phillip
_________________
Phillip
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| 2012/5/7 13:38 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Phillip! You get it! ... ding ding ding!!
Give that man a Wonka Bar!
Krispy |
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| 2012/5/7 13:40 | |
rnieman
Member
Joined: 2008/10/24
Posts: 146
| | Re: | | Hi Krispy you wrote
"By the way, it's a very common misconception for people to think that Reformed Theology (i.e. Calvinsim) does not teach free will. In fact, it does. An unregenerate man has a choice to make. The problem is that according to scripture the unregenerate man is dead. He has no choice but to choose sin. A dead man can not change himself. Only God can. Once God touches a man's heart that man is then enabled by God to choose obedience."
The bottom line: in the C position man can only sin. Well in order for a will to be free, it has to have the ability to make choices be alternative actions. In the C position, there are no choices between alternative actions, thus not free.
Russ |
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| 2012/5/7 13:54 | Profile |
rbanks
Member
Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1330
| | Re: | | quote
The bottom line: in the C position man can only sin. Well in order for a will to be free, it has to have the ability to make choices be alternative actions. In the C position, there are no choices between alternative actions, thus not free.
quote
Very good observation brother!
I praise God for the reformed brethren in their awakening to the scriptures and their zeal of preaching Christ with the anointing they have received.
But I praise God even more for the people He has saved in spite of their Calvinistic teachings.
Oh that more of these reformed brethren would be more baptized in the Spirit so that they would receive greater enlightenment so that God could use them in a greater measure.
Blessings...from brother rbanks |
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| 2012/5/7 14:15 | Profile |
