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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Billy Graham Endorses NC Marriage Amendment Before State Vote

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in regards to my below post, i was mightily convicted of what i wrote, seemed rash, harsh, and while i do dishes, or house chores, i love to hook the laptop to the TV, so i can listen to Len Ravenhill, or Michael Brown, or Duncan Campbell......and i was listening to this from Michael Brown, "What To Do", and as God led, i thought it appropo to the thread of discussion

 2012/5/6 9:42


Jim writes.........

" I want to also add how much inter-faith idolatry the causes of abortion and homosexuality have led to. Believers striking hands with the catholics and mormon churches- all for a righteous cause of course (defending biblical principals in the US). Will we wait until judgment day to find out that we have lost our purpose, message, and way church?"

Excellent point brother. There is a continual straw man argued that one is either involved in politics or one is indifferent. Those who have radically encountered Jesus and He is their grand obsession are the least indifferent people I have met........... bro Frank

 2012/5/6 11:09

Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4646


Hi Jim,

I don't think that it has anything to do with "striking hands with the catholics and mormon churches" any more than saying that it is "striking hands" with them to go fellowship with a congregation (since they believe this as well). The Catholic and Mormon "churches" are in gross error and it has nothing to do with their opposition to homosexuality and abortion. Those are authentic BIBLICAL principles that two cults happen to share.

Remember: It is those cults who happen to embrace only certain portions of Biblical truth...and not the other way around. Thus, there is nothing ecumenical on the part of believers when those cults agree with the Bible on certain issues.

As for the issues of "helping the poor," immigrants on our own soil and seeking peace with all men:

I think that the problem with this statement is twofold. First, it implies that there are some (particularly "Conservatives") who don't believe in helping the poor, proper immigration or living in peace. And, it implies that it is an elected government's responsibility to take the money of taxpayers and disperse it to the "poor" in America. Those are assumptions that just aren't true.

I don't know anyone -- conservative or liberal -- who doesn't believe in helping the truly needy as a moral prerogative. It is the broad extent of that help which is often in question...and the idea about how just it is for the government (often rather than fathers) to raise children. There is a direct correlation between families with fathers and a much lower reliance upon government assistance. And, there are "need-based" organizations who operate under devilish means (like Planned Parenthood and other abortion groups).

I saw a young woman standing outside of our local Walmart asking for donations. Usually, there is a local Church standing there seven days a week asking for donations. However, the woman stated that her organization is trying to "increase access to birth control and abortion" for the poor and needy. So, any question about the proper way to help those in "need" or the extent of an elected government's role is legitimate.

The same is true about immigration. My wife is an immigrant to the United States. However, she did it legally. She worked as a migrant worker for much of her childhood. The issue about secular governments waging "unjust war" is moot in the sense that no one votes for individuals based upon promises of going to war. Moreover, I don't know anyone who believes in an "unjust war." They all think that the war is "just" before they get involved in such a situation.

Still, this is an interesting question. I have noticed that those who are often the loudest against government involvement are often quite vocal about government grievances. Many of those who don't want believers to "participate" in government are often either quick to enjoy the benefits of living in that country (invoking "rights," collecting tax returns, driving on government-built roads, using government-regulated internet, using the post office, etc...) or they argue that the government of consenting people should be responsible for a Biblical mandate to take care of the poor.

Many of these "secular" decisions are simply decisions about what is right, wrong or a better choice for a particular position. Like I said, the push for "homosexual marriage" will have an effect upon the Church. As pointed out, there are legal requirements that are tied to it. A Church -- including one that doesn't enjoy tax-exempt status -- could face legal scenarios that could be extremely costly in terms of money, time and concentration.

The same lawsuit scenario is true for small businesses owned or run by Christians who don't want to hire a homosexual, transvestite, etc... who might get angry if you don't offer them a job. There have been situations in which Christian bookstores have been sued because they did not hire homosexuals in a state where "sexual preference" was added as a factor in "discrimination." There have been "hate speech" laws in some states that have restricted the content of tracts and religious literature.

While it is certainly plausible to do this if the scenario arises, it could be averted or prevented if believers simply said what they thought about this issue during a statewide proposition or amendment comes to a vote.

I apologize for digressing from your post. However, I do think that we sometimes incorrectly associate voting "yes" on an amendment that retains the traditional definition of marriage as the same as "striking hands with catholics and mormons." In this case, it is supporting an ancient Biblical and moral definition of marriage as being between one man and one woman.

The Book of Esther is an interesting anecdote in this case. She was a Jewish woman married to a pagan king (who chose her, oddly enough, because of her physical beauty). Haman hated the Jews and wanted them destroyed (one of Satan's long-time to killing children). This was the political concept of "genocide." Esther faced a choice: She could have just left it into God's hands or risk her life by taking the step to voice her concerns with her pagan husband. Esther chose to share her voice to the king. By the grace of God (because the heart of the king is in the hand of God - Proverbs 21:1), the king acted on behalf of the people of God.


 2012/5/6 13:09Profile

Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1263


Brethren I don’t mind stating my belief. I believe in the whole counsel of God. I believe in the church being separate from the State because the Kingdom of God in not of this world. I do not and will not try to get things done through politics but only by the Spirit of God.

I have been bought with a price and am not my own. I strive to stay filled with the Holy Spirit to minister to others by the Spirit and also to influence others to the Lord and His ways by the Holy Spirit. I don’t look to see what any moment of this world is doing or not doing to see which way I’m going to go and do. I pray and listen to the leading of the Holy Spirit and strive to act accordingly.

Marriage is a holy institution given by the divine wisdom and kindness of God who said it is not good for man to be alone so he made a help mate for him called woman. Male and female he created them and God never said that this was best for a man and a woman to be united in holy matrimony called marriage but he actually also said that uniting in any of way like men with men or women with women was an abomination in his sight.

Now you guys on here that seem to be more spiritual on here as in finding fought with everything else, well the end doesn’t justify the means. Now if there comes an opportunity in the region where you live to vote for God’s holy institution that he set up for the good of society and all people, and you want to stay home and talk about all the other problems in the so called church and do nothing with your vote for God’s Word then that is up to you. Then you can answer to God for all your complaining and doing nothing concerning God’s holy institution but as for me I will cast my vote for God’s Word on marriage. I may can’t stop a society from going to hell, but I am not going sit by on my hands and let a society go to hell quicker, because I didn’t want to get involved. The bible says that if the foundations be destroyed what can the righteous do. How do you think that it will better for society and the little children if people who believe in God’s institution of marriage sit home and let all those who hate God’s standard of marriage go to the polls and eventually change God’s holy institution for society? Do you not think that more innocent children will be violated and more ungodliness will abound? Do you not think that God sets up laws in the land to protect society? Do you want little children to be taught to grow up and marry either John or Jane? Brethren if I didn’t vote for God’s standard of marriage having the opportunity to do so, then it would be the same as “to him who knows to do good and does it not, to him it is sin.

Blessings…form brother rbanks

 2012/5/6 15:14Profile

 Re: Abominations

uniting in any of way like men with men or women with women was an abomination in his sight.

Brother it certainly is an abomination in God's sight when men or women exchange their natural affections for unnatural affections. It is important to realise however that their are many things which God finds abominable. If saints ever go back to writing the law we will all end up in a truly shocking place. Much condemnation and accusation from the world has arisen because of what the church has done in the past. I hate homosexuality with all my being. I expect one day to go to prison for standing against it in the inevitability of preaching the gospel and seeking to keep the flock of God. Especially the little children. Can we seek to pass laws on everything which is an abomination to our God. If so we will have to include the following.

There are six things which Jehovah hateth; Yea, seven which are an abomination unto him: 17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, And hands that shed innocent blood; 18 A heart that deviseth wicked purposes, Feet that are swift in running to mischief, 19 A false witness that uttereth lies, And he that soweth discord among brethren. Proverbs 6 16-19

How will we make a distinction between these things.

It is good to say what one really means. Fault finding is not a reasonable ambition. But plain speech is a better thing. In the end we all have to act according to our understanding and conscience of obedience. If a brother said to me "give me a lift to the polling booth" I would give him a lift. But I wouldn't hold the pen for him!


 2012/5/6 16:40

Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1263


Andrew so you are saying that you would encourage christian people not to vote and just let people change a godly institution.

Just wondering...blessings form brother rbanks

 2012/5/6 16:52Profile


That's a fair question Brother and to be completely honest on this subject I wouldn't discourage any one from voting. It would be foolish to answer the inference that doing the opposite would be equal to just letting people change a godly institution. I nearly replied, but I wont because its simply not that simple. This isn't the place. But bless you. For a moment I nearly became a fool.


 2012/5/6 18:35


Andrew writes.........

"But bless you. For a moment I nearly became a fool"

One of the wisest replies I have seen on SI......bro Frank ( who has been a fool too many times to mention)

 2012/5/6 21:33

Joined: 2011/7/29
Posts: 683
northern USA

 Re: Billy Graham Endorses NC Marriage Amendment Before State Vote

I don't have a clue why this is considered newsworthy. Billy Graham the little idol of the evangelicals endorses a marriage amendment bill, big woop. So does Mitt Romney, so does the Pope. So do many other apostates.

 2012/5/7 7:52Profile

Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1263


Bless you too brother Andrew!

Trekker don't you ever have anything edifying to say!

Trekker do you know how to be a blessing to people or do you just like to be contentious. I really find it hard to post with continually negative people who have nothing edifying to say. Its seem you enjoy being miserable and love to make others miserable but brother I have joy unspeakable and refuse to receive such a depressing kind of spirit. I pray that you will stop being negative and I pray that God will change you to be more edifying to people.

Blessings…from brother rbanks

 2012/5/7 8:14Profile

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