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brodav9
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Joined: 2008/2/22
Posts: 173
Sylacauga Alabama

 everything out of the closet except the occult.

All kinds of things have been hidden and come out of the closet concerning all kinds of ways of life. It is interesting the occult is kept secret and within secret societies and peoples homes etc. The differnce is it would mean exposure of the devil and his secret works. He in fact works in secret in all of our lives, the closer you get to Jesus the more you see him. Then he can be dealt with by God's power. We should not be afraid to talk about the subject just like other strange things people do and are not afraid to talk about them. Many preachers say there is no devil. That may be to keep people from thinking they are crazy and stay away from them. By the way a false mass deliverance on TV is evident being when demons are cast out people sometimes vomit. Not cool for TV and the proper political correct issue. Some do it to fool people that they are elite deliverers. The best place is in a more private place.


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David

 2012/5/3 19:05Profile
Jeremy221
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Joined: 2009/11/7
Posts: 1532


 Re: everything out of the closet except the occult.

Amen.

 2012/9/29 21:10Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
All kinds of things have been hidden and come out of the closet concerning all kinds of ways of life. It is interesting the occult is kept secret and within secret societies and peoples homes etc.



Amen brother. Perhaps one of the reason is that the occult and the demonic powers are behind all these agendas and ungodly ways of lives in our culture these days.

Satanists and witches in many ways have more fervent faith in their prayer meetings than Christians do. It is time to pray to believe God for His work in the earth again in our countries.



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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2012/9/29 21:17Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re: everything out of the closet except the occult.

Dave, you are hitting on a profound, basic concept that has far-reaching implications, some which I wonder a lot about.

Do you have any specifics in mind that you posted this?
Just wondering what you are thinking...


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Sandra Miller

 2012/10/1 12:33Profile
wayneman
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Joined: 2009/1/24
Posts: 453
Michigan

 Re:

It may be that the occult remains "occulted" (hidden) and visible cases of demon possession are rare today because Satan's strategy for North America and Europe is a covert operation: he doesn't want people to believe he exists. Ironic how some of the devil's best servants run around saying there is no devil.


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Wayne Kraus

 2012/10/1 19:07Profile









 Re:

Quote:
It may be that the occult remains "occulted" (hidden) and visible cases of demon possession are rare today because Satan's strategy for North America and Europe is a covert operation: he doesn't want people to believe he exists. Ironic how some of the devil's best servants run around saying there is no devil.



Agreed.

 2012/10/1 19:58
mguldner
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Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1862
Kansas

 Re: everything out of the closet except the occult.

I just recently posted on this not to long ago and came to the same kind of realization. For the longest time I was aware of the battle but didn't realize how real this battle was and I agree with you its greatest weapon is it's a secret. The sad part is, is its a well kept secret because it is right before us in our faces but we look beyond it and rather than at it.


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Matthew Guldner

 2012/10/2 12:30Profile
Jeremy221
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Joined: 2009/11/7
Posts: 1532


 Re:

One of the areas of the occult that is very accepted today among young Christians is found in their entertainment. The acceptance of scifi and fantasy in everything from tv shows, literature, games and movies. The themes and seem to take precedence over the Word because the demonstrations recorded cater to the lusts of the flesh. There is a lie that seems to be common that goes along the lines that because one believes the Word of God that He still works today to perform miracles that the visually stunning things seen in this literature are also good because of an identity with the miraculous in any form is to identify with God and His power. I have fallen for this trap and wasted much time consuming this rubbish thinking that I resonated with the reality of the supernatural it demonstrated. What I found as I consumed more and more of this trash is that it is as its father the devil, full of lies and deciept and in fact it seemed that the resolution of every problem hinged upon decieving the other party. I also found that it fueled the lusts of the flesh and as consistently followed by much temptation and sin. Regarding the occult specifically, these writings or shows may start with the simple vain imaginings of the author but very quickly enter into accurate renderings of real occultic practices and worship of demons. I have found that I can watch this stuff when I have neglected to walk in the Spirit even in a small matter. It comes at times when I desire to be powerful, recognized or appreciated. A love for the Truth and not a love of self brings us to Reality. When I acknowledged, by the grace of God, that walking in the Spirit really is Life that He can tell me where to go, whether to the right or the left, I came out of the fog. Because occultic material from scifi and fantasy has so permeated my generation, it is just a matter of course as to when it will be brought up and the one with the most knowledge thereof gets bragging rights. I feel dirty when I throw in a comment to add to a conversation about such things because I know how wicked they are. I think I need to share my testimony about how the Lord gave me understanding about the source and life of the junk so that others are warned. I fear though because I know that many of these people who take the name of Christ do not know him.

 2012/10/2 21:42Profile









 Re: everything out of the closet except the occult.

Quote:
All kinds of things have been hidden and come out of the closet concerning all kinds of ways of life. It is interesting the occult is kept secret and within secret societies and people’s homes etc. The difference is it would mean exposure of the devil and his secret works. Dave.



Since first reading this statement which was supported by the moderator’s, I have felt a deep need to respond to it. Two nights ago I tried to write a response expressing that need and as I neared the end of my response my browser crashed and I lost everything. I was about to share something, which I knew to be true and difficult. It seemed as if it was stolen from me. I prayed and asked the Lord whether I ought to share again and indeed to show me what my motive was and why I am burdened. In writing this post I do so now in the knowledge of that burden.

There is a bit of a myth that goes about which asserts that there are ordinary everyday people who really know who Satan is, and wilfully and knowingly serve him. In our culture we imagine that those who either call themselves Satanist’s or else Witches are such people. The reality however is quiet the reverse. None of these people actually know who Satan is. If they did they would be crushed by the knowledge of their own wickedness. Without the knowledge of Christ in their lives, they would be completely destroyed and swept away were they to ever come to a true understanding of their activities. We would have to ask how we even know that Satanist’s exist or else that Witches exists. We find just one witch in the bible so far as I know and not a single reference to “Satanists”. There is no doubt that there are many men and women, who both openly and occultly practise witchcraft and sorcery, but whilst these are an enemy of the cross of Christ, their titles are false and misleading because they give the impression of setting them apart from other men and women. They are simply men and women who have either driven themselves into secrecy or have been driven into secrecy. They are driven in large part by an understanding or experience of their own lusts and desires, and in that they have found a way of organising their desires and expressing them systematically. Their usefulness to the evil one lies primarily in their lending their hearts, minds and will power to Satan who then acts in their strength to effect outcomes for his own benefit. His ambitions do not actually include these poor souls and he would cast them aside in an instant if it suited his purposes.

Israel was forbidden to practise witchcraft even though the nations around them practised it as a matter of course. It is quiet certain that in the time of Israel all nations and tribes openly practised idolatry and witchcraft. Included in this was divination, communications with the dead and sexual degeneracy. It was open and visible for the most part and anyone could have chosen to be part of its visibility. Even Israel in the end openly practised idolatry in shrines and groves on hills and by streams in full and open display. One could not call this activity occult. It was practised even in the home and by reason of standing stones and visible familiar objects it was indeed visible to anyone who entered the home. It was not hidden, it was visible. However there was a time in Israel as there is now in the nations (which have received the gospel) that witchcraft became occult. This is built upon a more certain knowledge that the thing being spoken and practised is forbidden by God. Who are these people? How would you know them? I have to say that they are not known and they cannot be seen and they themselves determine not to be seen. The many visible faces of witchcraft constitute that which is ordinary to the flesh. Cursing, divining, communing with the dead, worshiping idols and sexual degeneracy are all fruits of the flesh. No demonic spirit is required to practise these things. A person needs only to be driven by the lusts of the flesh and the evil pride of life to produce them without thought.

The singular character of witchcraft in northern and central Europe, North America, South America, Australasia and Israel is a requirement to be hidden. Exposing these hidden practises is impossible. All that which is visible and easily seen in these nations’ is the witchcraft of the flesh, and not the witchcraft of agreement with demons, by and large. Only in Africa is demonic witchcraft still practised and understood in full visibility of demonic men and women. In India it is seen in visibility through hundreds of millions of idols; it is men and women who openly worship demons. Yet in Africa there are forms of witchcraft which do take on a hidden character, not because it cannot be seen, but because it is not recognised by many who have a life time of being familiarly informed and visibly informed by open witchcraft. These are in the church, unrecognised, yet they are discernibly demonic and wicked. In India too there is a hidden witchcraft in the church, which tends to sophisticated idolatry and the worship of knowledge and demonic philosophy. In the western church witchcraft is practised in the same way it has been for many years, it is the witchcraft of the flesh. It is visible and recognisable, but it is a man or a woman and not a demon. It is more sophisticated and less visibly obvious than open wickedness and because it is a man or a woman it is not understood. Much of what is called faith ministry and prosperity ministry falls into this category. When this is understood in the light of Christ, it is actually offensive, unclean and a thing to be handled with great care. It is sensuous and defiling precisely because it is of the same in substance as our own flesh, were we to walk in the flesh or not. It is our brother and our sister, it is even their garments. This type of witchcraft is far more dangerous than the witchcraft of wicked unbelieving men and women, hidden or visible. We can and do reject both that which is hidden and visible, but how can we reject our brethren whom we love in the true faith? We must handle them, commune with them and fellowship with them. Yet if their sensuality becomes so visible that it descends into open carousing and the fulfilling of lusts, we are commanded not to even greet them.

A much greater reality of wickedness exists in the spiritual realm in heavenly places where principalities and powers are drawing to a conclusion that which amounts to a renewed effort to establish Satan as true God on the earth. Perhaps they imagine that they can achieve some heavenly ground beyond what they are able to understand of heaven itself. Perhaps this ambition is based on false promises and false knowledge of the stones of fire on the sides of the north where God Himself has ordained true worship by Seraphim, Cherubim, angels and arch angels. It is a work which whilst it is not hidden from God, it is nevertheless hidden from men and most of the angels as well. To this hour the evil one is able to enter into the heavens (not into the presence of God), by a route in the north and does so for the express purpose of drawing away those who are known by God as having “departed from their place”. In this he is attending to his occult activities amongst the angels. There are also times when he enters heaven openly by reason of God’s requirement to give an account of his activities on the earth. We know that sometime in the past the wicked one was judged and caste down from his high place. At that time he must have thought that his end had come and his ambitions were completely over. Most of those who were implicated in his blasphemy of seeking to be as God, and who themselves blasphemed God by worshipping Satan Himself, were also judged and they were judged unto death. In keeping with all who enter into death their bodies were destroyed and they became disembodied spirits. They too must have thought that their end had come and in sheer terror of this realisation they would have been laid waste in their own minds as well as their bodies.

That which is demonic attends perfectly to the condition, which all men have fallen into. Without God’s restraining hand all men would be abandoned to their own lusts and we would see in full visibility just what is meant by a demonic mind. Yet it has to be said that spiritual wickedness in heavenly places far outreaches in ambition the wickedness of that which can be found on this earth at this time. In the future these angels (not demons) will themselves be cast down (not destroyed). When this happens the earth will comprehend that which is satanic from that which is demonic.

Satan does not share his ambition to be like God with anyone. Those in heaven who are already drawn aside from God are made into blasphemous companies with titles and names. The reward for their rebellion is possessing titles and ranks which were not given them by God. In their own halls they press these titles and ruthlessly glory in them. As far as those who enter their halls are concerned their principle presentation is one of mockery and ridicule of all that is good and pure. They, like the demons before them, and in our measure of time men also, receive in their own bodies the satisfaction of their labours in either physical or else intellectual pleasure at the cost of others. Those who serve Satan’s purposes in heaven and on the earth are simply used by him. His end is already known throughout the churches and even though he is not seen or desired, his ways are known through the Scriptures. In the fullness of the light of Christ, he also is comprehended fully.

What is really shocking about his activities is the fact that it is not by angels that he achieves his latter work, but by men and by demons. In heaven there are countless angels who have never seen God face to face. They dwell in their own habitations and conform to the limitations, which God has set on them. To the extent that they are willing to communicate with the wicked one when he enters heaven for his occult works, to that extent they are drawn away into disobedience with all of its appalling consequences. These beings are acting out of certain knowledge of God. They have no doubt as to the reality of God. Yet they have chosen to follow another, whilst maintaining their position. This is why Satan’s ranks are filled with the lowest of heaven and not the highest. The princes which will rebel have already rebelled form the beginning with Satan. Today it is a ruthlessly destroying the works of God for no purpose or possibility of accomplishing an outcome. It is five thousand which are drawn away, not one ruling over five thousand. It is one of five thousand and not the captain of five thousand. There are principalities and powers of wickedness in heavenly places, but these rebelled eons ago when Satan first willed to ascend to the sides of the north, to ascend over the stars of heaven and be like God. What is happening in heaven now is a continuation not an initiation of rebellion on Satan’s part, even though those new ranks are more recently become willing to disobedience. Yet their disobedience is still hidden and therefore it is occult. In the end Michael the Prince of Israel will provoke it into openness by waging war; at which time it will be cast down because open rebellion cannot be tolerated in heaven.

For those who are unfortunate enough to have the mind to look into such things this knowledge does them no good whatsoever. As far as some men are concerned such knowledge has the effect of setting them apart for a life of exceptional wickedness. In the end without Christ it would destroy them.

In seeking to make visible that which is hidden there is a danger of exposing ordinary men and women to something which they would most likely find disturbing. The only valid way of exposing demonic wickedness is to expose it in the light of Christ. If Christ is become your light, then you will see that which is wicked and flee from it. As regards flesh and blood (men and women), their wickedness needs to be exposed to them. Given that they are truly hidden this can only be done through prayer. Then in seeing their own sin, in the light of Christ, they will repent. Given that the fullness of Satan’s ambitions in the end come down to him giving his power to the Beast of Revelations and the False Prophet of Revelations (both are men), as well as possessing an idol so as to make it speak with the voice of a man; it is clear that something of a restraint is still in play, in contrast to his original desire. The simple reality is that God Himself will not allow Satan to become visible in his own body in the direct and real meaning of the word “visible”. The only time in the whole Scriptures where Satan is permitted to act in true visibility is when he was presented with the opportunity to tempt the Lord Jesus. In that temptation Satan was defeated in visibility and the Lord set about to destroy his kingdom and make a public display of it; eventually triumphing over it through the cross and resurrection from the dead. Satan is said to give his power to the Beast and the False Prophet and we see that when these two men are defeated, that power comes out of their mouths in the form of two evil spirits of equal strength and wickedness. In short Satan’s power today is demonic; both men and unclean spirits. But his great power is men possessed of strong demons.

The anger which Satan will experience when he is finally excluded from heaven is a reflection of the shortness of his time left, as well as a discontent with what he has or will have achieved in that hour. He will know very well that his time is short, yet he also knows that only three men in the whole history of the world will have been pressed into rebellion whilst possessing knowledge which would ordinarily make for obedience, even Judas Iscariot, the Man of Sin and the False Prophet. It actually reveals how utterly hopeless his rebellion has been. It has accomplished very little for him to take comfort in. Even the creature which God has made in His own image and likeness will have proved in the end to be the fullness of his undoing through Christ having been born of a woman according to the flesh. WHAT IS MAN, THAT YOU REMEMBER HIM? OR THE SON OF MAN, THAT YOU ARE CONCERNED ABOUT HIM?

The very best uncovering we can embark upon is to preach Christ crucified for sin and to determine to walk in obedience ourselves. If we set about to uncover those men and women who have fallen into rebellion, so as to make them known, we will have done nothing to uncover the one who drove them to it. It would be better to uncover Satan himself through the knowledge of Christ and in that knowledge they will flee from Satan to Christ. Only in that way will they confess their part in wickedness as a testimony to God’s great goodness in saving them through Christ.

In conclusion a passage from Ezekiel Chapter 8 Verses 1-12 give clear meaning to these things.

Quote:
And it came to pass in the sixth year, in the sixth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I sat in my house, and the elders of Judah sat before me, that the hand of the Lord Jehovah fell there upon me. Then I beheld, and, lo, a likeness as the appearance of fire; from the appearance of his loins and downward, fire; and from his loins and upward, as the appearance of brightness, as it were glowing metal. And he put forth the form of a hand, and took me by a lock of my head; and the Spirit lifted me up between earth and heaven, and brought me in the visions of God to Jerusalem, to the door of the gate of the inner court that looketh toward the north; where was the seat of the image of jealousy, which provoketh to jealousy. And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel was there, according to the appearance that I saw in the plain. Then said he unto me, Son of man, lift up thine eyes now the way toward the north. So I lifted up mine eyes the way toward the north, and behold, northward of the gate of the altar this image of jealousy in the entry. And he said unto me, Son of man, seest thou what they do? even the great abominations that the house of Israel do commit here, that I should go far off from my sanctuary? but thou shalt again see yet other great abominations. And he brought me to the door of the court; and when I looked, behold, a hole in the wall. Then said he unto me, Son of man, dig now in the wall: and when I had digged in the wall, behold, a door. And he said unto me, Go in, and see the wicked abominations that they do here. So I went in and saw; and behold, every form of creeping things, and abominable beasts, and all the idols of the house of Israel, portrayed upon the wall round about. And there stood before them seventy men of the elders of the house of Israel; and in the midst of them stood Jaazaniah the son of Shaphan, every man with his censer in his hand; and the odor of the cloud of incense went up. Then said he unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen what the elders of the house of Israel do in the dark, every man in his chambers of imagery? for they say, Jehovah seeth us not; Jehovah hath forsaken the land.



A nation is like unto a house (Israel) and a man is like unto a house and the church is like unto a house. The house is guarded by a door which leads unto the heart and the inner man. The house is surrounded by a wall and a garden within. Because of sin and death the wall is breached exposing the inner wall of the heart. The inner wall of the heart is dug into and reveals the door thereto. If the door is opened what will be seen? It is in the inner heart that wickedness is produced and only God Himself is able to know it. The Lord knocks on the door of the heart, as well as the church and the nation also. Whosoever will open the door quickly and invite Him in will find comfort and life. Whosoever tarries will find that He has moved onto the next man, church and nation just according to His own will and purposes.

 2012/10/3 4:00
table
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Joined: 2012/9/18
Posts: 23


 Re: angels

how can even angels sin when they see God and work for Him, i suppose even man can still sin in heaven if this is the case and still be thrown out!!!

 2012/10/3 10:11Profile





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