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mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

Brother Trekker,

I understand your friends is a babe in Christ and depending on his conversion you could be walking on dangerous ground. By that I mean if he was converted with the song and dance "Christ makes you happy all the time and that's his job" biz then coming to terms with what I have to say next maybe hard.

Sometimes as Christians we are called to suffer, this even means physically. Paul had a thorne in his side and prayed it were removed. It wasn't removed but what did happen was Paul was given the strength to continue dispite this pain. If I remember correctly there are many commentators who believe Paul suffered pain because of demon oppression attacking the physical body. While others believe its a figure of speech.

I recently went through a very painful time in my life and I praise the Lord for who He is because of it. I grew and learned beyond anything I could have learned without the pain. I became strong in Christ Jesus while I was weak in my flesh. Recognizing that Christ broke all curses is the start of healing I believe. Yet at the same time it is a beautiful thing to shout to the Lord "Dispite the Pain I will declare Your wonderful!"

I would have your friend hang out in Job and the Psalms, that is where I spent my time healing and seeking the Lord's councel. I hope that helps. :)


_________________
Matthew Guldner

 2012/5/2 6:24Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

I would recommend you listen to some of Derek Prince's teaching on the subject..

He also has a book Curse to Blessing..

Here is a link to an article of his Cause of curses...

http://www.dpmuk.org/Mobile/default.aspx?article_id=91119


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Colin Murray

 2012/5/2 8:55Profile









 Re:

I'm going to take the practical slant on this and say that the pain and physical issues are probably genetic. Several of my grandparents were diebetics, as was my mother... and now I am. Thats not a curse. It's genetic. I dont know what is causing your friends pain, but I would guess it some sort of genetic issue passed down. I'm not so quick to call things "curses". We are ALL cursed without Christ anyway, and even tho spiritually we have been renewed in Christ, physically we have to endure the curse of sin and therefore we suffer in the physical... so technically any pain or illness is part of the "curse".

If it were God's will to deliever us from all pain and illness, and the WOF preachers will tell you it is (as long as you have enough faith)... then no one would ever die. But everyone dies, proving that it is not God's will to deliver His people from all pain and illness in this life.

God uses death to deliver us into the new life where there is no pain or illness! Praise God.

Now, how we deal with or cope with that is a different matter. If the environment he grew up in deals with it by drug abuse and alcohol then your friend will have an inclination toward that. Thats all he knows. And in some sense you could call that a "generational curse".

Can God heal your friend? Absolutely! Will He? I dont know, God has a plan and He will accomplish that plan... but sometimes His plan is for His child to suffer in this life. Some people do not like that thought, but it's true. Joni Erikson Tada would not have had the ministry she has had since the 1980's if she had not suffered tremendously in this life. That was God's perfect plan for her.

Paul had some sort of physical ailment and no one really knows for sure what it was. He prayed three times to be delivered from it... and God said "My grace is sufficient for you", and Paul stopped praying for healing at that point. He came to a place where he realized that God gave that ailment to him to keep him humble and depending on God.

Personally I think generational curses are hard to proove with scripture. I'm open to the idea though. But once someone is regenerated by the hand of God and saved to the uttermost... they are a new creation. Spiritual and sometimes physical curses are broken. The biggest and most important thing of all tho is that the curse of sin and death is broken! Praise the Lord!

Krispy

 2012/5/2 9:40









 Re:

It would be nice to know what disease is causing what Trekker wrote is causing the "severe physical pain".

As I mentioned, back in the early 70's when this controversial teaching began, there were several denominations and groups like the AoG, just for one, that had to write Positional Papers on these topics.
If no one has listened to the link that EverestoSama left - that was the same view that these positional papers took, Scripturally. And to be honest, it was mainly Derek Prince that they were needing to contend with and they did it with the Bible alone, just as Jacob Prasch did in the message that Everest posted. Though it's obvious that "what the Word says" is tossed aside by enough to keep these anti-Scriptural beliefs multiplying and causing more damage than good. I can't see how these that believe things that are not Biblical in the realm of demonology or curses will make it through what is coming upon this earth. They're open and vulnerable to a wide array of deception, because once someone believes anything contrary to His Word, they're open to all the more deception and are in a demonic stronghold already, just by believing and stubbornly hanging on to a lie against His Word.

So, if we knew what the medical diagnosis is for this "severe physical pain" that this man is suffering under, we'd have a clearer view of why he is on pain killers.

He quit drinking which is commendable - but if he's in physical pain from a true medical issue - of course he'd seek relief - but Trekker is seeing that his Dr is giving him too much or too many medications. The man himself needs to go elsewhere for medical counseling. There are "Pain Clinics" now and he also can talk to a good Pharmacist.
He needs help and 'prayer' for a medical issue - but things being what they are in this generation - some forget that there are actual physical conditions that are not all demonic nor curses, in a truly born-again person.

What is his physical medical condition?

 2012/5/2 11:03
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Quote: Though it's obvious that "what the Word says" is tossed aside by enough to keep these anti-Scriptural beliefs multiplying and causing more damage than good. They're open and vulnerable to a wide array of deception, because once someone believes anything contrary to His Word, they're open to all the more deception and are in a demonic stronghold already, just by believing and stubbornly hanging on to a lie against His Word.

Sounds like a curse to me


_________________
Colin Murray

 2012/5/2 11:24Profile









 Re:


Is Krispy's Diabetes a curse as well?

Pat-answers are easy to give. Getting someone's full history is another.

Believing ANY lie against His Word of Truth is "oppression" and those that push that lie are dangerous humans that our LORD warned us would come in this last generation.

 2012/5/2 11:28









 Re:

Quote:
Is Krispy's Diabetes a curse as well?



Technically yes, it's part of THE curse. But no, it's gentics. It's science. It's creation, but perverted by sin.

Krispy

 2012/5/2 12:23









 What is a curse really?.

Quote:
Pat-answers are easy to give. Getting someone's full history is another.



Quote:
Though it's obvious that "what the Word says" is tossed aside by enough to keep these anti-Scriptural beliefs multiplying and causing more damage than good. They're open and vulnerable to a wide array of deception, because once someone believes anything contrary to His Word, they're open to all the more deception and are in a demonic stronghold already, just by believing and stubbornly hanging on to a lie against His Word.



Curses appear to have at least two forms. The last quote above perfectly explains the easiest of these two forms. Namely 'self injury'. "I believe what I hear and therefore I harm myself". This is the kind of curse which most people understand because when we are being mean with someone we are in fact hoping to have an effect. Another person realising this ability we all have to harm ourselves by what we hear and believe, can use that knowledge to an effect. They may even exult in its effect, which is of course wicked.

There is another more difficult to understand form of cursing which is truly wicked and arrises from a reality of God Himself. When the Law was given at Sinai it came with promises and consequences. The wicked one doesn't have the authority to 'create' real consequences and effects. He does however, drive men to truly wicked acts which bring those individuals into a curse. It took just an accusation before God regarding Job to create the outworking of this reality in Job's life for a season. Job's faithfulness proved sufficient to end the effect. Thus was Job 'justified' before God and the wicked one silenced.

Demonic activity is almost always outworked through this principle. Its not a matter of simply seeing a demon in everything, but it may be a matter of discerning what is at the root of something. What could be more wonderful than to dispel the wicked one and his minions with a reminder that he is a liar and a deceiver. His effects are counterfeit only because they are based on God's authority and laws, and not on his own authority and laws; which he would have all men everywhere believe.

The original question appeared to be concerned by a possibility. Whether their is any reality in it can only be known by the man himself. How did he or his friend come to ask the question? Has a lie already been spoken and believed? Is the enemy simply applying a righteous principle of God when in former times a grandfather acted in such an abominable way, so as to lay himself and his generations open to oppression?

There can be no doubt that the better position is to lay hold of the reality of 'new life'. How will this brother do that if he is always oppressed by pain and a mind to destroy himself? If it were simply a matter of pain then this brother could have learned to endure it. He did once try to destroy himself through drink. He has overdosed and nearly killed himself. This is a destructive effect. For those who suffer pain as some in this post do, the difference ought to be easily understood. Peace be with us all.

Andrew

 2012/5/2 12:33









 Re: What is a curse really?.

You brought up some points, Andrew, that we've discussed here before - namely - "Pain and Suicide" and believe it or not - that was one of the hardest "debates" that I've ever been involved in. Contending with friends here that were making blanket statements that one can safely make it to Heaven by killing themselves - and quoting a big name Pastor's book on that.
That same debate I see on other sites and it grieves my heart to no end that people are being told that suicide is OK. Those that are in the throws of depression or oppression or horrible pain can kill themselves and there's no problem with that in GOD's eyes.
The days ahead will be Very hard on all of us, most agree -- and imagine the young in Christ being taught that suicide is acceptable? And not just the young in Christ - but anyone of us believing such a thing, knowing what we may all face in the future.
Those that teach that, are causing others to play Russian Roullete with their souls. Yes, some debates can save lives and souls as well as praying together for the man that Trekker finds herself alone to care for.
Praying!

 2012/5/2 12:50









 Re: Your reply Sister

I am sorry for having been instrumental in causing you such a memory of pain. I will pray for this brother also.

At no point in my post did suicide ever enter my mind. Most people have suffered and suicide is certainly the worst outcome of it. I was describing two distinct ways in which the enemy harms us. Once this 'option' lay open to myself; so I thought at the time. I failed, thank God. I was a child and full of unbelief. Today I would never encourage any one to think in that way.

Andrew

 2012/5/2 13:47





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