SermonIndex Audio Sermons
SermonIndex - Promoting Revival to this Generation
Give To SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Rethinking, rereading and reinterpreting prophecy

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 )
PosterThread
Lordsknight
Member



Joined: 2012/4/25
Posts: 13
Mississippi

 Re:

If a person doesn't believe the first three verses of Revelation (i.e., the near expectation of the events), neither will he believe the rest of the book. For if a person is unwilling to accept the time constraints of the text, the rest of the document can mean anything that the reader desires.
If the Apostle John was banished to Patmos under the reign of Nero, as the internal evidence indicates, he wrote the book of Revelation about AD 68 or 69, which was after the death of that emperor; but the gospels and epistles some years later. One of the oddest facts about the New Testament is that what on any showing would appear to be the single most datable and climactic event of the period — the fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 — is never once mentioned as a passed fact.
The inscription to the book of Revelation, in the Syrian version, first published by Deuteronomy Dieu, in 1627, and, afterwards in the London Polyglot, is the following, "The Revelation which God made to John the evangelist, in the Island of Patmos, to which he was banished by Nero Caesar."
This places it before the year of our Lord 69AD.


_________________
Mike Richardson

 2012/4/28 16:36Profile
hulsey
Moderator



Joined: 2006/7/5
Posts: 653
Missouri

 Re:

There are bible scholars who point to the internal evidence of Revelation to support an early writing, however, most point to the internal evidence to support a later date.

Once again, the letter to the church of Smyrna is devastating to an early writing interpretation as the Church in Smyrna has no evidence of existing until the 80's A.D.

References to the temple do not qualify as internal evidence for an early date as there are O.T. prophets i.e. Ezekiel, who spoke prophetically about a temple in Jerusalem while none existed at the time of the writing.

Add this to first generation Christian testimony, and no existing evidence of John being imprisoned at an early date on Patmos with testimony of his imprisonment actually supporting a late date, there really is no reason to believe that Revelation was written until the end of the first century.


_________________
Jeremy Hulsey

 2012/4/28 16:40Profile
Lordsknight
Member



Joined: 2012/4/25
Posts: 13
Mississippi

 Re:

There is more internal and external evidences. Far outweighing the single statement by Irenaeus. To me that is crucial to a proper interpretation of Revelation. The dating is the key to proper interpretation. The rapture will soon take place and that will be the end. There is no 7 year tribulation even intimated in scripture. The 42 months and other dates are perfectly revealed in the Jewish/Roman war.

I know it goes against everything we have been taught to believe but consider the source. The scriptures themselves or the doctrines of men holding degrees above our heads as we listen with visions of grandeur at their beholdings.


_________________
Mike Richardson

 2012/4/28 16:41Profile
hulsey
Moderator



Joined: 2006/7/5
Posts: 653
Missouri

 Re:

LordsKnight,Approved,and others,

Before I go any further I want you to be assured that my disagreement with you does not mean that I am looking down on you, have any ill will toward you, or even trying to "beat you in a debate."

I believe that we can have a healthy discussion back and forth and even learn something from each other in the process. I don't entertain any thoughts of trying to convince you to believe like me every man must be convinced by the Lord. I pray that the Spirit of Christ rules over our talks, even more so in our disagreements.


_________________
Jeremy Hulsey

 2012/4/28 17:09Profile
Lordsknight
Member



Joined: 2012/4/25
Posts: 13
Mississippi

 Re:

I absolutely agree. I know for myself I followed the status quo of my denomination and when i actually studied the scriptures with an open mind I had questions they could not answer. I don't believe anybody could be nor should be dogmatic about how things will end. I am intrigued by what God has revealed to me and I enjoy sharing it because it just makes sense and fills in the many questions I had in scripture. I don't pose to be right, simply content in what I have found. I enjoy a healthy debate because it sharpens me to know what I believe.

I believe along with the Southern Baptist Convention which states: God, in His own time and in His own way, will bring the world to its appropriate end. According to His promise, Jesus Christ will return personally and visibly in glory to the earth; the dead will be raised; and Christ will judge all men in righteousness. The unrighteous will be consigned to Hell, the place of everlasting punishment. The righteous in their resurrected and glorified bodies will receive their reward and will dwell forever in Heaven with the Lord.

How all this happens is anyone's guess... Mine is just the same. it is my understanding of the information I have available. That's my story and I'm sticking to it! Unless God's Word shows me otherwise!

God bless you and I look forward to a healthy discussion!

***Smile as you type so others can see your truth in love...LOL!!!


_________________
Mike Richardson

 2012/4/28 17:47Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 2227


 Re:

Hi Lordsknight,
What the early church believed may or may not have believed is not the authority on doctrine only the word of God.Also what the early church believed is firstly and most importantly mentioned in the new testament.
The doctrine of the rapture is a well founded doctrine but it will not be a secret.Whether it is before,during or after the 7 year period is a well debated subject with strong scriptural back up for all views.The majority of if not all the Christians I know are seeking the true and living Christ not the anti Christ.
I think that the Lord has revealed more scripture as we have come closer to the end of the age even to some extent more than to early Church and will continue reveal some things that we have'nt understood yet,
Yours Staff

 2012/4/28 18:28Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Before I go any further I want you to be assured that my disagreement with you does not mean that I am looking down on you

You mean you disagree with the plainness of the scriptures in my post? Or just some of it?

Quote:
I believe that we can have a healthy discussion back and forth and even learn something from each other in the process.

Absolutely!! I have a forum policy that I try to hold to and that is when a thread gets overheated, I stop posting and move away from it.

Quote:
I don't entertain any thoughts of trying to convince you to believe like me every man must be convinced by the Lord.

That is one of the ways we are convinced yes, I agree!

Quote:
[I] have [no] ill will toward you, or even trying to "beat you in a debate."

That is the mature approach and thank you for choosing to love me instead of being offended.

God Bless You Brother


 2012/4/28 19:17
Lordsknight
Member



Joined: 2012/4/25
Posts: 13
Mississippi

 Re:

I agree wholeheartedly. My discovery is that the late dating of Revelation is only based on comments by a religious leader around 325 AD. To base the date simply on that is giving room for error. The internal (scriptural) basis for the early dating of Revelation is more evident and powerful than the alternative.
I don't accept a secret rapture either. The Bible says in John 5:28-29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Then those who are alive and remain will be changed in like fashion, those who believe to be caught up to Christ and those who don't caught up to judgement.
The dispensationalist teaching is that there will be a vanishing of those who are Christians. And go so far as to teach that in the final millenium there will be a 4th temple in which we will again sacrifice animals for sins. That is according to LaHaye and Jenkins.
I am curious how they get that from scripture. Remember, I am a recent former dispensationalist until I studied the scriptures myself.


_________________
Mike Richardson

 2012/4/28 19:26Profile
hulsey
Moderator



Joined: 2006/7/5
Posts: 653
Missouri

 Re:

Lordsknight,

I do have a question. You seem to be firm on a specific date, one in fact that I have never seen even proponents of an early date give. Why to you assume A.D.68 when most proponents of an early date put Revelation between A.D.64-66?
(These are the years that Nero persecuted the Christians in Rome and most likely martyred Paul and also according to tradition Peter)

Approved,
I disagree with your conclusion :).

*edit: I will begin a separate post with the reasons why I believe a later date for Revelation is acceptable to make the threads easier to follow.


_________________
Jeremy Hulsey

 2012/4/29 2:28Profile





©2002-2024 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Revival to this Generation.
Privacy Policy