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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Mike Bickle wants book about Catholic mystics to be "manual" at Ihop

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Theophila
Member



Joined: 2007/1/15
Posts: 365


 Re: Mike Bickle wants book about Catholic mystics to be "manual" at Ihop

The lines are being drawn in the sand, on the wall, in the sky and in every available place, if we will but have eyes to see.

Son of God, please help me to be faithful to You to the very end.


_________________
Tolu

 2012/4/26 14:57Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I am just curious how you can make such a statement. At least add "in my opinion." I for one will be a a tad surpised if I do not meet Mother Teresa in heaven. But then again, perhaps I am "obviously not saved."



Let me preface this by saying that I truly hope Mother Teresa was saved. However, may I ask what you base your opinion on? There is not one thing in all of her writings that indicate that she had a biblical salvation experience.

On the contrary all of her writings show that placed her faith in the Catholic Church and in the sacraments and her good works for salvation... not in Christ and Christ alone.

The last writings of her life she expressed that she had no assurance that she was saved.

Now, we can not sit here and judge her heart. But we can read what she wrote (and her words are a window to her heart) and document that her faith was in her works and in the Catholic Church.

Christians have a hard time swallowing that all indications are that she was not saved. They have this hard time because they look at all the good deeds she did.

So are we saved based upon our good deeds? Or do we believe what the Word says... that ALL our "good deeds" are filthy rags and mean NOTHING when it comes to our salvation.

Krispy

 2012/4/26 15:03
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

KK wrote:

"However, may I ask what you base your opinion on?"

Hope-- nothing more. I do not know her heart...God knows. Did she believe in Jesus? Was she abiding in the vine? Did she bear fruit? Did she do what Jesus said to do? Was her theology "exactly right?" Who knows... God knows.

I am put off by blanket statements about dead individuals' salvation or non-salvation. There are indicators, of course. But to say someone "obviously" is not saved is a tad presumptious, I think.

Was Martin Luther "obviously saved?" What about his rabid anti-semitism? Who knows... God knows.


_________________
Todd

 2012/4/26 16:17Profile









 Re:

I understand what you're saying. I agree to a point. What I am trying to say is that if she put her faith in the things that she said she did... and demonstrated to have done... then she was not saved.

Yes, she showed "fruit"... but so does Bill Gates. He does a lot of good around the world. There are atheists that do what we would all consider to be "good".

It doesnt mean a thing.

It would be wonderful if in the last hours of her life the light went on and she understood. I hope so!

Krispy

 2012/4/26 16:35
Solomon101
Member



Joined: 2008/4/1
Posts: 536
America's Flyover Country

 Re:

Interesting thing. This thread reminded me of an old Keith Green song. Actually the first "contemporary" Christian song I had ever heard after I got saved.

I think several here will remember Keith's music and hold him in high regard. There are 13 messages of his archived here on SI as well.

Do any of you remember his incredible rendition of "The Sheep And The Goats"?
If you have heard it.....you will remember it.

Anywayzzz.... some of you will recall at the end of the song/story/conviction explosion Keith Green states

Quote:
the only difference between the sheep and the goats, according to the scripture, is what they did and didn't do!



Interesting thoughts. In the case of Mother Theresa, if it is claimed she was "unsaved" are we then saying that a "corrupt tree" brought forth more good fruit than virtually every "good tree" known on the face of the earth? That does violate some clear scriptures ......... and what about Keith Green's take on the sheep and the goat's?

 2012/4/26 16:48Profile
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

I was at a Keith Green concert in Sacramento in a very small hall in '77. Having many years passed since then, I and maybe Keith would now say this:

"the only difference between the sheep and the goats, according to the scripture, is Who they knew or did not know!"

Pilgrim

P.S. Colin, those particular quotes from Norman Grubb (they are from him, right?), I would not agree with.

 2012/4/26 16:53Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1839
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Quote: Colin, those particular quotes from Norman Grubb (they are from him, right?), I would not agree with.

Did you mean Colin, those particular quotes from Norman Grubb I would not agree with.


_________________
Colin Murray

 2012/4/26 17:29Profile









 Maybe spin the bottle toward the uninformed. This is absurd.

To Solomon101;

So we drift from Mike Bickle and his obvious doctrine promoting Contemplative, Transcendental Meditation as holy Christian prayer...[ It is not.] to associating Kieth Green as an advocate of Works based justification in his faith, all from the lyrics of one popular song he performed.

Then, we coronate Mother Teresa as bringing forth good fruit on a world-wide Apostolic level, more than any known.

"In the case of Mother Theresa, if it is claimed she was "unsaved" are we then saying that a "corrupt tree" brought forth more good fruit than virtually every "good tree" known on the face of the earth? "...Solomon101

Mother Teresa fed and cared for the dalit underclass of the Hindi, but that is the extent of her good works. She refused to lead these exiles to Christ, [ understanding that she could not anyway, for she never knew Him ] for she assessed this to be below their dignity.

She believed that these poor and wretched should be given graces to trust in their own god. None of them were ever told about Christ Jesus as being the one and only Savior; they were kept in their sin, as a lost one, according to her belief system.[ read autobiography ]

In effect, Mother Teresa greased the slides of Hell for these pitiful souls to be thrust into. This is one of her more famous quotes:

In the foreword of her book, "Everything Starts With Prayer [ meditative, transcendental], Anthony Stern points out the ecumenical spirit of Mother Teresa’s work by praising her oft-quoted statement:

“I’ve always said we should help a Hindu become a better Hindu, a Muslim become a better Muslim, a Catholic become a better Catholic.”

She practiced this Ecumenical, Universal approach to her ministry all her life, and never ministered Salvation or repentance from demonic devotion. This , in my book, is no ambassador of Christ; but quite the opposite; It is cruel, and wicked.

As far as associating Kieth Green as promoting a works oriented faith, you are stretching this into the absurd. Kieth [ I have met him, and attended numerous events where he ministered; [ not close ] Green was a very solid evangelical high on repentance and living holy, and somewhat drawn to Charles Finney in doctrine. I have read him, and know several that were close to him.

I wonder if this is dogma driving you, or something else? It seems unsettling to me to drive these things with so little foundation.



 2012/4/26 17:44
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re: Maybe spin the bottle toward the uninformed. This is absurd.

Hi Tommy,

I certainly did not mean to say Keith is "works based". Just bringing out that "who you know" most definitely produces works.

The "works' that we all do, emanate from who we are fellowshipping with.

God bless you, brother,
Pilgrim

Hi Colin,

I don't agree with contemplative prayer or penance or "emptying" the mind.

 2012/4/26 19:25Profile









 Re:

Is Thomas A'Kempis a Catholic Mystic?

If so, I like this guy, he had a lot of good writings.

 2012/4/26 19:52





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