Oh. 'Thank you', passerby. I just found Pilgrim's post on page one and he Did post all 10 verses.
Goodness, what happened after that?
I'll have to go back and read more to see if his post was acknowledged.
I was thinking of adding just Heb 5:11-6:2, but I better not, uh? :)

"Very strong statements", indeed - right you are.

I do love Phil 3:7-15 though. Very much.


Thank you again, dear friend!

You seem to write as you know Paul Washer personally..

Quote: washer does not in any way teach justafication through sanctification ,,but would teach evedence of true justafication is by continuing sanctification.

Evidence of True Justification is by continuing sanctification.....

So what excactly is required for a sinner to be saved and how do we know that they are saved?

Say for example someone who believed that Jesus was the Son of God and confessed it with his mouth.. Attended the discipleship course, then turns around for different reasons denies that he knew Christ...

Would he not be still be sealed with the Holy Spirit, would not God the Father be waiting for his prodigal? Would not the Holy Spirit that he was sealed with not be working away on the inside even though we couldn't see the "Evidence of True Justification"

_________________
Colin Murray

The question might be better asked looking at a modern translation of scripture. What is a so called carnal Christian? The answer is simple from the NIV translation. A carnal Christian is one who has not grown in Christ. They are still worldly in many areas of life.

Look at the background of Corithians. You had a young church that was trying to grow in the midst of a pagan culture. And I do mean pagan. The term 'corithianize' became similar to depravity in the ancient world. To say Corinth had loose morals would be putting it mildly.

Think of the Corinthians church as being in the midst of Sodom and Gomorah or Babylon of its day. Against this backdrop of open vice such as temple prostitution or homosexuality people were coming to Christ. This is the context of 1 Cor.6:11 when Paul tells the Corithians 'This is what some of you were'. These were new converts redeemed in Christ.

But as any new conver to Jesus, they are immature, worldly, anf bring baggage. They need to grow in Jesus. This is the background of the Corithian church. Simply put, a carnal Christian is an immature Christian who needs to grow in Jesus.

I think one of the earlier posters put it more simply. A carnal Christian is one who has been born of the Spirit yet still walking in the flesh. They need to grow in Jesus.

Bearmadter standing down.

"Quote: by brothagary on 2012/4/5 20:14:27
washer does not in any way teach justafication through sanctification ,,but would teach evedence of true justafication is by continuing sanctification "

this sounds like the older explanation that we are justified by faith but that genuine faith is justified by works. I have no problems with that.


"quote:
paul seems to be against the idea of carnal christan ,,becase people from his denomination and others ,take those verse spoken of in corinthians and create a doctrine ,wherethey say a christan and be saved and live a life of sin and carnality ,,and because of the twisting of the doctrine of the persarverence of the saints ,,and the combining of the two doctrines ,,,the out comes is a so called saved christan who doesnt need to repent of carnality ,,,,and this is what paul is againsts,,the doctrine of the carnal christian as taught in this manner by his denomination "

theology is often 'reaction' and it is always good to know the history of the theologian.

_________________
Ron Bailey

hi murrcol,,,,sorry if it sounds that way,,,brother im guilty of sometimes sounding like i know the apostal paul personaly ,as many of us are

i dont know if your asking me what i think about how a sinner is saved or our washer thinks

in my opinion and i would think that washer would be of a similar beleif accoring to his own testamony . according to your example ,,the reson why denied christ after a confession was becasue he ws not bornagaing or or seald with the spirit ,,,,if there was no repentence involved or conviction of sin ,,,if he confessed lord ,lord ,but did not begin to do the will of the father ,,if as you say he denied christ from his heart ,which is what i think you mean ,but i cant be sure with out you saying so ,,,he is lost still

the prodical son parable ,can proble be interpreted in differnt ways

i see the prodical as never someone who was seald with the spirit ,,his carnal desires show the state of his deprvity and vilness ,,but wile he lived in pleasure he was dead wile he lived ,,,but after he was humbled by trial ,and convicted of sin saw him self wallowing in the pig pen ,eating the rubish of this world ,turned form his sin in humility ,and went back to his father ,and was changed ,and then his father put on him a robe of his righeousness ,and he sat down at the wedding feast of the lamb

blessings

“Again in 7:14 the Apostle says: “I am carnal, sold under sin.” That is the proof of a spiritual and wise man. He knows that he is carnal, and he is displeased with himself; indeed he hates himself and praises the Law of God, which he recognizes because he is spiritual. But the proof of a foolish, carnal man is this, that he regards himself as spiritual and is pleased with himself.” Martin Luther Commentary on the Romans Chapter 7.


OJ

Reading many of the posts to your question Lamb99 you will no doubt realise that there are some difficult distinctions to make sense of in understanding those posts. Having just read your original question and the simplicity and loveliness of the enquiry I was minded to advice you that you yourself must work out the answer by walking and trusting Jesus to show you what carnality means to God.

Some of the posts take a doctrinal position and some speak out of experience. Even though experience can be wrong, they are still sound and do not contradict the doctrine if one's heart is right and one keeps to the simplicity of trusting God to show you how to think as He himself thinks.

We cant trust experiences by themselves because they may come out of ourselves. However, if what we experience is provoked by God Himself it will be clear to us, in our own hearts and minds what carnality is because God will give those experiences reality; His own reality.

The lesson about Peter is not simply that he denied Christ, thereby showing his fear of being uncovered as a disciple of Christ, and the possible consequences that may have had for Peter. Peter was told by the Lord that Satan had sought permission from God to sift him; Jesus said' when you return, strengthen your brethren'. Peter was convinced when he heard these words that he would not deny Christ. In the end he did, and as it is written 'he wept bitterly'. This bitter weeping means to KNOW that Christ is right when He tells us something about ourselves. This kind of experience produces strength because you now understand that you cannot trust your own estimation of yourself.

In short carnality is trusting in yourself, which is carnal by nature. Spiritual reality is trusting in God and denying yourself. I pray that your walk with Christ will be fruitful and full of good works, which is pleasing to God.