| Poster | Thread | RobertW
Member
Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri
| | Re: | | Quote:
If that were the case then there would be no presidence for how to deal with a famous heretic (pick one on TBN) in a public forum. Pauls warnings and scoldings of heretics was very public and he named names so there was no mistaking who they were that he was talking about.
The other side of the coin is that Paul did not do things that brought a reproach against God or the churches among the heathen. Some people have read these forums and thought we were all as confused as a termite in a yo-yo. Everyones a heretic, every minister is in sin, etc. etc. ad infinitum. The forums are not intended to be used in this way.
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Robert Wurtz II
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|  2012/3/17 7:08 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Here's the post by theEphah:
Quote:
Now here is your solution, When you pray, Pray to YAHWEH, call him by his name. It means self existance. One who creates something out of nothing. He is not a god. Lucifer is a god and so is her little demonic buddies. That's where the term godworship came from.
Secondly, don't go straight to the Creator, go through his Son first, (you know, the one who died for us?) his name is Yahshua Messiah, our King and High Priest. He is our mediator, acknowledge him by taking your prayers to him first, then ask Him to send you prayers to Yahweh on your behalf. In your prayer, ask for forgiveness from breaking his laws and commandments, this shows total submission and humility, then ask him to deliver you from this sin sick world.
End your prayer with Hallelu-Yahweh or Praise Yahweh. Whatever you do, don't ever end your prayer with the word amen. Never!
Please Note: The word lord is a title and was meant for men, don't use it. I know the Christians are going to cry foul, that's ok, don't let that deter you. If they were doing the right thing, we wouldn't be in this mess we're in to begin with.
This isn't quite "Judaism" - this is something beyond the ordinary. Even Orthodox Jews say "Amen" -- it's in the O.T. Hebrew 27 times = אמן.
The funny thing is, first he says to pray to Yahweh - then, don't pray directly to "the creator" but to "Yahshua", asking Him to send your prayers to Yahweh.
Confusing, isn't it? Jesus said - "Pray, Our Father Who art in Heaven ....." but Ephah says pray to Jesus.
Doesn't matter Whom you address actually - as long as Ephah knows that Jesus 'is' GOD and equally "the creator".
I don't think this is a Moderators problem -- I think the Members can handle this stuff.
On one forum that I view - the Mods say - "Thanks for moderating with us, because we can't be everywhere at once."
I think we can handle anyone that comes on with error, by using His Word. It's good spiritual exercise to dig into the Word to defend it and a good way to sharpen our ability of how to correct in love. We all need help on that one.
But theEphah likes attention and he's probably loving this thread and as two of the Moderators said on this thread, that when we give them the 'wrong' type of attention, it just seems to strengthens them to believe they're being persecuted for their correctness.
The way Ephah comes against "Christians" by that name "Christians", I think it's been rather obvious, even to a babe in Christ, that the man has stuff against "Christians".
We can handle error. Only those that are verbally crude, lewd or abusive do we need help with - but I really do believe that this man is 'looking for' negative attention and that's sort of quirky -- why he wouldn't just stick with forums that believe as he does - where there's no "Christians".
Maybe theEphah should come on this thread and answer these things himself.
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| | 2012/3/17 7:27 | | roadsign
Member
Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777
| | Re: | | In reading this thread I find myself optimistic. After all, we have a glorious theology in Christ who is able to bring good out of anything. That's what's so unique about our Christian belief system: It operates according to grace and mercy. There is a way back: forgiveness, reconciliation and restoration. Actually, apart from that functioning we aren't even Christian, right? And we can't expect God's blessing, right?
So now we ask, how can God's glory be restored out of a recent tragedy on SI - the sad loss of a member - one who was able to offer a perspective that is outside the experience of most of us: the persecuted church. I realize that Blaine himself asked to be removed. But that does not leave us off the hook - regardless of his perceived frailties.
As is often suggested, it might indeed be true that at times immaturity is behind the ill manners towards one another, and one could feel justified pulling the "pride" card on somebody. It's a quick tool in our arsenal. Yet I suggest another possibility: limitations in our ability to hear another, to think through things, appreciate another perspective, and to articulate clearly enough. Sometimes valid points get lost simply for lack of this - not because of "pride" or "rebellious spirits".
As it is with children, when they don't know the right way to do it, they resort to the bad way to do it. Isn't that true for grownups too? So rather than make more rules about what not to do, provide tools for how to do it well.
How's this for starts:
"Polemic Theology: How to Deal with Those who Differ from us, by Roger Nicole
http://www.founders.org/journal/fj33/article3.html
Here's the subheadings:
What do I owe the person who differs from me?
What can I learn from those who differ from me?
Could I be wrong?
How can I cope with those who differ from me?
Appeal to reason
Appeal to tradition and history
As for me, I need this kind of teaching material.
Diane
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Diane
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| | 2012/3/17 8:29 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Quote:
But since instituting this rule, you yourself have violated it and posted articles that speak of these very subjects.
Spoke of them yes, argued and debated no.
There is a difference.
We can all post on this subject the problem is how it plays out every time, division.
What Greg has said basically, "don't start threads for the purpose of discussing these subjects".
Now within non calvinistic threads there will be moments where this subject will be brought up and people will discuss it, however, it's not the main theme. Threads have been hijacked though and had to be locked. But it's not a hardcore rule not to discuss it within a non cal/arm thread that may sometimes border on what the subject is being discussed, just don't start a Cal/Arm thread.
I hate to speak for the brother, but that is how I am interpreting how he desires for the SI forums to go regarding these themes. |
| | 2012/3/17 10:08 | |
| | Re: | | Quote:
The difference is that Paul was dealing with the church at Galatia and we are having a discussion in a public forum (albeit Christian).
I personally don't a see a difference.
Paul emailed his letter to www.galatianchurch.anno.domini.org the only difference is technology. He treated his letters as if he was right there with them, and they didn't have a Church building like we have, they met from house to house, like we are to doing right now.
My house your house we are meeting together in one place on this forum or wherever we meet with others online, wires, wireless technology connects us in this age. We break bread together, we admonish one another, we care, we pray, wii play (had to throw that in he-he), we are a Church here in cyberspace. Yes, SI has declared itself not a Church, but in all actuality we are very much like that. When we define Church we will discover that it's where two or three are gathered together in His name. Basic as it is, it's the elementries of our faith.
I do see how SI defines it's site and not a Church, and I accept that but in my mind we are because the Saints meet here.
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| | 2012/3/17 10:25 | |
| | Re: THOUGHTS ON THE CHALLENGES..... | | Concerning theEphah and his aberration of faith.
"For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him."
I must agree with JesusIsGod here, in that most of us are certainly strong enough in our gospel foundations to absorb , with kindness, the benign unbeliever, with hope that a true light may be shed through the posts here to minister salvation to him or her.
However, the line must be drawn, in my view, when the seeker proves he is no seeker at all, but a seller; a devourer. Then, conflict and division must follow.
As I see it, the moderators have exhibited a strong measure of tolerance permitting many to come to that red line of the ban, perhaps in hope that Christ would be further revealed to them as they wander, and yet at some point, must reject them, according to the Word.
"But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
"A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;"
"Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself."
Heretic means divider. Most are warned, as I have witnessed, with gentle exhortations from the moderators, and then rejected....for you cannot have order and peace with such, even, or especially on a discussion forum. They must be rooted out, and banned.
The moderators are much more tolerant than me, and you could not pay me to do their job.
Concerning the CAL/ARM war...My opinion....Let them fight it out, with the understanding that the display of bitter and hateful accusation, you must leave; banned for a season or more. This would tone down the angry rhetoric.
Another note: Do you realize that Satan does hate SI, because of the Word that flows from here? It is true, and he sends his agents here, often, to sow discord among the brothers. [ some conscience of it, some not ].
This site is not, nor cannot be a democracy. The peace of God must rule, under the umbrella of the Word of God, the Bible. The Spirit and the Word agree. Overall, it is ran very well. Consider, that anyone...anyone in the world with an Internet connection can sign up; well that's quite a feat, Eh?
Two things are written over the Body of Christ.
"FREEDOM AND BRETHREN"
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| | 2012/3/17 11:01 | | ZekeO
Member
Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa
| | Re: Moderators.... | | Just add some more thoughts to this.
I haven't been on here regularly for the last couple of years and am quite involved in a charismatic church in the 'real world'.
I also don't know what kind of churches most of us go to, but I've never been a service where someone is allowed to just stand up and sprout forth their ideas on whatever.
Here you can, and in some respects thats the razors edge that we have to live with if you have an open forum.
Never in all my years has anyone who comes with strange ideas and teaching allowed a free ride. Everything gets scrutinised, everything is tested by the members that participate in the discussions.
Those with either bad theology and unsubmissive hearts will very soon move on. Or they get themselves banned because they start fighting with everyone.
Others try and steam roll over everyone, but eventually Whether its the mods or life circumstances God works out his will.
If anything I consider this forum a christian type of Mars Hill. The sermons and articles on here are solid Gold, from preachers with all kinds of theological slants.
Ultimately everything of what this site is about is glorifying Jesus Christ.
This is not a teaching sitet, but more dealing with the heart issues of the faith.
I am reminded of a scripture listening to the ephahs insistence on following the commands:
1Ti 1:5 The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.
If you are self seeking, a false brother your words will betray you, the way you deal with people will show what kind of person you are.
I am also reminded of Gregs posting on his 10 year anniversary media release.
I love the wildness, I love the discussion, it makes me think, as I am sure it does all of us.
If something is wrong, why is it wrong. Lets thrash this out.
Of course if someone comes on here and they dare use a NIV they may also get tarred and feathered;-)
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Zeke Oosthuis
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| | 2012/3/17 11:29 | Profile | sermonindex
Moderator
Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 39795
Canada
Online! | | Re: | | Quote:
As is often suggested, it might indeed be true that at times immaturity is behind the ill manners towards one another, and one could feel justified pulling the "pride" card on somebody. It's a quick tool in our arsenal. Yet I suggest another possibility: limitations in our ability to hear another, to think through things, appreciate another perspective, and to articulate clearly enough. Sometimes valid points get lost simply for lack of this - not because of "pride" or "rebellious spirits".
Dear sister, I feel what you shared here really sums up the problem behind all of this. Are we teachable in our spirit, have we come to the forums to learn from others or just to steamroll over others with our ideas. The internet is a great tool and has given freedom of expression and thought but that has a very dangerous side to it that anyone can just start speaking their mind which sometime is very useless to real and spend time reviewing. Such an epedemic of people judging other things, speaking their minds and letting their tongues flap in this way allows sin to be rampant and many hurts are caused along the way.
Though this allows for people to express themselves and greater communication to happen across national, denominational lines, the great problem is still in an individual who really should not be teaching starts to teach. A heretical person who is diligent to post has an audience of 100's. If someone is anointed by God then the people will reconize that and listen to him, but sadly blogs and other tools make it so anyone can be sort of reconized to a measure. There as I have stated is a good and bad to this.
May we count it a privildge to be involved in a public forum that is so closely associated with the best preaching in the last 100+ years. We should also be aware that are writing is seen by many nations of the world and many witness in the world, saved and unsaved. I would also consider this booklet for the members of the forum to read:
Touching Godliness Through Submission by K.P. Yohannan
https://www.sermonindex.net/pdf/touchinggodlinessbykpyohannan.pdf
At SermonIndex we are not looking for mindless followers but we do want to perserve the unity of the spirit at all costs. And to minimize backbiting, debating and arguing for the sake of Christ and His body. Also for some who feel that the forums are unfair or biased according to the moderators that is true to some measure, we are trying to guide the forums in a specific way for the edification of all and for the purpose of this site. We do hope the discussions lead more to practical christianity and holiness of life and not arguing about calvinism or other topics as such that we are mentioned.
We ask for your prayers for the website, moderators and all involved. And if you have a desire to be active in the forums we ask you take this task in humility. All of the moderators including myself feel this responsibility and are here to serve you and help see these forums be fruitful and a blessing to many.
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Below each post we see this paragraph of text that we are so prone to just skip over and press the submit button, may some of us read it afresh today and even look up the references to help us have a more Christ-like attitude in posting. I love you all saints and thank you for your prayers.
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The site moderators ask you before you post that you consider praying and ask the Lord if you have the right spirit to serve others in the body of Christ before posting and pressing the submit button. Please also look at these scriptures: Matthew 12:36, James 1:26, Colossians 4:6.
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we are locking this thread and recommending that any specific people who have serious problems with how the forums are being run to contact me personally [email protected] or one of the moderators.
God bless.
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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon
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| | 2012/3/17 12:38 | Profile |
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