| Poster | Thread |
| | Re: | | Certain segments of the Church can be dead, but not the entire Church. If the Church is dead, so is Christ and that can't be so. A head cannot function without a body, believe it or not but Christ needs His body.
They weren't "ALIVE but dead", they were saying they had a name saying they were alive, but in fact they were dead.
They had a sign over their door saying, "Jesus is Alive", "Jesus Lives", "In God We Trust", but their lives showed that He was dead. There would always be a few that were not taken up with the idolatry of the times so not all were dead in that particular Church. |
|  2012/3/15 16:03 | |
| | Re: Is religiousity killing US? | | Quote:
Well, how much is this kind of silliness really killing us? Personally, I have stepped away from pre- post- trib stuff. I don't concern myself with arguing over tongues and baptism anymore.
Good for you! I'll let you in on a little secret, Jesus isn't that concerned either.
With Christ, Truth is Truth. There is no arguments, the debates cease. Only one question remains and Pilate asked it, "What is Truth?"
I have pondered that question many times and even now. We can grasp and stumble as to what Truth is, in it's plain definition it's a Person.
I too don't bother with the pre post and trib stuff either. It's a complete waste of time because it a subject that most have used to divide, therefore, I look at it as non biblical. There isn't even any harmony in the ones that agree with their stance and in the same denomination. I digress.
When I think of Baptism, I think of this Truth that we are attached to in death and we are attached to It in resurrection and today we have this newness of life, eternal life abides in us today. Truth is on the inward parts.
The great doctrines of the Church are not meant for us to argue over, they are meant for us to walk in this Truth, this Person, this God.
It's not even if we have our theology straight, as good as that may seem, it's more like, is Christ growing in us?, Is this Truth permeating every fabric of my being so that this life that I now live is being lived out by the Christ that is in me? My lot is just to stand there and believe while He doeth the work. Surely all men would be drawn to that. For all men will know that you are My disciples, because you'll have love for one another.
How does one come to that place? I think if we abandon our way of thinking and let God change our minds as it were. For there is a way that seemeth right unto a man but their end thereof is the way of death.
There are many of us (including moi) that fit that verse.
Does it matter if I am right? Truth is a Person, He is right. So does it matter if I am right?
Is anyone hearing what I am asking?
Forgive me, I am trying to grasp something of the Spirit and I am having trouble conveying it into words.
Being right theologically doesn't matter. When Truth is standing there, what I think doesn't matter anymore, it's WHAT HE IS THINKING that matters.
Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
When we say, "God doesn't do things that way", or "God will not forgive that person", or "this is how God works" etc.. or whatever it is that we think that God will or cannot do, we are thinking with our natural mind. When we have given up on someone, God has not. When Jesus said that He was going to die, Peter piped in, "Not so Lord". We are limiting God to our understanding, that mind needs an overhaul. It needs to be transformed. If I may say, the renewing process is the removal of our thinking and being replaced with Christ, with Truth.
How do we know that those changes are being made? I am going to go with the verse that came to me when I was typing that question.
Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
1 Peter 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
When we get nasty in our postings, where is the love of God that is supposed to be in us? When He was reviled, He did not revile back.
I think the key is He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.
This is why that Church in revelation was dead. When they were hurt, they hit back, Truth was not with them. Therefore Christ was dead in them and not alive. Bitterness, slander, hate, ruled their lives, and they had a name over their door that they were alive, but they were in actuality dead.
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| | 2012/3/15 16:56 | | murrcolr
Member
Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1839
Scotland, UK
| | Re: | | Quote: your insistance on death is not gospel (good news) for it is defeatest and says that we serve a God who is not able.
Quote: If the chuch is dead, as some are saying than does God really exist? If the church is dead then there is no church, only appearance of something that parades itself as the church.
Guys it not something you can grasp with logical thinking
When God said to me The Church is dead I didnt hear a loud thump as he fell of his throne. I encourage you, in fact I challenge you to go to God about it and ask him the Holy Spirit to explain it to you.
Quote: Therefore Christ was dead in them and not alive. Bitterness, slander, hate, ruled their lives, and they had a name over their door that they were alive, but they were in actuality dead.
Approved is getting it
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 1 Corinthians 3:3
I like how the New Living Translation says it: for you are still controlled by your sinful nature. You are jealous of one another and quarrel with each other. Doesnt that prove you are controlled by your sinful nature?
"The terrible thing, the almost impossible thing, is to hand over your whole self--all your wishes and precautions--to Christ. C.S. Lewis
"Christ says 'Give me All. I don't want so much of your time and so much of your money and so much of your work: I want You. I have not come to torment your natural self, but to kill it. No half measures are any good. I don't want to cut off a branch here and a branch there, I want to have the whole tree down. C.S. Lewis
Gal 5:24 and they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts
Defeatist---I would like to add as I close this post that after God said to me about the church is dead he went on to speak about the Mightiest Move of God ever sent. If we really want to see that Move of God then we have come to realize our current condition and turn back to God and humble ourselves and surrender our whole being over to Christ
_________________
Colin Murray
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| | 2012/3/15 23:47 | Profile | jimp
Member
Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481
| | Re: | | hi colin, i see what you are saying and respect your right to say it.you live in europe and my pastor was invited to europe to preach 2 years ago and was told that they have no invitations for salvation any more because noone was responding. he preached in germany and had an invitation and 180 people came forward to give their lives to Jesus. he said he had similar results elsewhere. i see Jesus blowing on sparks that are growing cold to keep His opportunity open.i see flames of fire in different parts of the world and in a few places ablaze with the fire of God. we get honest reports from the thousands of churches around the word that even include how many are imprisoned and tortured for the sake of Christ.be encouraged yourself,brother.jimp |
| | 2012/3/16 1:20 | Profile |
| | Re: | | The church is not dead... has never been dead... and never will be dead. I am speaking of the true church. God always has had a remnant. This is shown all thru scripture.
Yes, there is a poser church. But it is not the true church.
God did not tell you the true church was dead because Jesus declared:
"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Matt 16:18
She may be down in numbers, and there are imposter "churches" that mask themselves to look like Christ's bride... and truly they are dead.
But the true church, those who hear and recognize the voice of the Master, is not dead.
If God said to you that what WE think of as "church" (churches that are not really churches) are dead, I would believe you.
But Christ's bride... His witness on the earth... is not dead. If you are saying that that is what God told you, then I dont buy it. God would have to contradict His very Word in order for that to take place.
We need to be very careful with the "God told me" stuff. Not saying God does not speak to people, but He gets credited for a lot of things that He never said... and we have to answer for that some day. Any time we declare something that we are certain "God told" us it should be done with fear and trembling, and most certainly needs to agree 110% with the Bible.
If God has told someone something... rest assured He has already said it... in the Bible.
Krispy |
| | 2012/3/16 5:30 | |
| | Re: | | I would also add that we are very short sighted. We see whats going on around us, and we assume this is the way it is world-wide. Not so.
As jimp pointed out, there is much that God is doing in the world. We have to see beyond our self-centered lives.
Krispy |
| | 2012/3/16 6:57 | | DEADn
Member
Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1395
Lakeland FL
| | Re: | | (quote)
Defeatist---I would like to add as I close this post that after God said to me about the church is dead he went on to speak about the Mightiest Move of God ever sent. If we really want to see that Move of God then we have come to realize our current condition and turn back to God and humble ourselves and surrender our whole being over to Christ
(quote)
What is considered the Mightiest move of God?
I have to say that I have heard many times, in church ( This was in pentecostal circles of which I no longer attend) That God was about to pour out His Spirit on the church and we would see great things. This appeared in very generic terms which really doesn't do much to build a people up. people hear such things but see nothing come to pass what are they to believe? This had been a problem for me for quite a while until I realized I am either looking in the wrong places for this or I am being lied to in church. I leaned towards the 2nd one because it becomes all about religiosity and keeping the faithful expecting for 'something'.
The comment above, I think this would refer to the personal life and not necessarily the public church? Or it could lead to the public church?
Does my post even make any sense at all? At times I sense being in a maze and when I hit dead ends I see a fragment of religiosity that leads no where as I mentioned in posts before and am looking for those things that lead to Living Water in the Soul which is Jesus while moving this this maze of life engrained within our culture. Thus another reason religiosity is killing us.
_________________
John
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| | 2012/3/16 7:36 | Profile | DEADn
Member
Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1395
Lakeland FL
| | Re: | | (quote)
I would also add that we are very short sighted. We see whats going on around us, and we assume this is the way it is world-wide. Not so.
As jimp pointed out, there is much that God is doing in the world. We have to see beyond our self-centered lives.
Krispy
(quote)
BULLSEYE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
From reading your past posting it is scary about how much we agree on so many levels. Are you a brother of another mother?
_________________
John
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| | 2012/3/16 7:41 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Quote:
God did not tell you the true church was dead because Jesus declared:
Let me help redeem my brother Murray from being totally misunderstood.
Using the words of Jesus.
Luke 8:52 .....Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth.
The Church has the appearance that she is dead but she is sleeping, at least the Church in the West. She sleeps because she doesn't realize that she has brethren to love and to care for and sinners are dying all around us and we don't care. It's preoccupied with self, how to please self, it's forgotten that it was made alive to serve God and others.
In Tommy Hicks vision he tells of a Church that is lying down among the dust of the earth encompassing North America asleep. He saw it at certain times try to get up and each time it tried, small little creatures came running out from among it like creepy crawling bugs fleeing when you move a rock. After several attempts to rise, it finally stands up shaking herself of years of complacency and indifference.
Ephesians 5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
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| | 2012/3/16 8:16 | |
| | Re: | | Quote:
From reading your past posting it is scary about how much we agree on so many levels. Are you a brother of another mother?
Naw... you're just finally seeing things my way. (God's way)
...kidding!! :-)
Krispy |
| | 2012/3/16 8:25 | |
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