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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Corrie Ten Boom, on Tribulation and Persecution -

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pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

Amen, brother Blaine.

I am certainly not correcting you and appreciate your heart (and posts).

Pilgrim

 2012/2/14 9:24Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1330


 Re:

Hi everyone,
With all respect for my brothers and sisters on this thread I need to say that I still believe that there will be a rapture of the church before the 3 ½ years of “the great tribulation”. I also have no problem with the main message of this thread.

I have also decided to post from a study of a great china preacher man who many know was also persecuted a lot in his life time to give you something else to consider.


2. Revelation 7:14a
"And I said to him, My lord, you know. And he said to me, These are those who come out of the great tribulation."
The "great tribulation" in 7:14 is not the three and a half years of great tribulation. The reasons are as follows:
(1) The great tribulation, at the earliest, should begin with the trumpets of woes, and the first woe is declared at the fifth trumpet (8:13). Strictly speaking, the great tribulation begins with the seventh trumpet (11:15-18), but Revelation 7:9 implies a first rapture before the seventh seal. These have already come before the throne and have not passed through the tribulation of the seventh trumpet.
(2) The great tribulation cannot begin before Satan is cast down to the earth. Verses 9 through 17 are before the opening of the seventh seal, while Satan's being cast down is after the sounding of the sixth trumpet (11:14-15). Before the context of the forty-two months (13:5), the man-child has already been raptured to the throne (12:5). Although I dare not say the man-child includes all those in mentioned 7:9, I do say that it must be a majority of these people.
(3) The conclusion of the great tribulation is at the pouring out of the seventh bowl, which immediately ushers in the kingdom. At this time we do not see the heavenly temple, only the earthly temple as spoken of in Ezekiel (the temple on earth in the kingdom age). During the great tribulation there is no time for God's people to serve Him, but Revelation 7:15 clearly says that they serve God day and night.
(4) In the great tribulation, there cannot be so many people receiving salvation, yet the "great multitude" in 7:9 has come out of the great tribulation according to 7:14. This shows the great tribulation in 7:14 must be different from the great tribulation that comes after the fifth trumpet.
(5) Revelation 11:1 makes mention of those worshipping in the heavenly temple, yet except for those in Revelation 7:9, there are none who worship God in heaven. At this time, the great tribulation spoken of in Revelation has not yet begun, yet these have passed through the great tribulation already. There is no temple in the new heaven and new earth (21:22), for God and the Lamb are the temple to the new city. (The center of the new city is God and the Lamb. In Revelation 3:12, following the words "temple of My God" is the expression "he shall by no means go out anymore." This no doubt refers to the time of the new heaven and the new earth when God and the Lamb will be the temple.)
(6) The Bible clearly says that there are Christians who need not pass through the tribulation (Rev. 3:10; Luke 21:36).
(7) If the people spoken of in Revelation 7:9 are those who pass through the great tribulation, then they must be those who die when the nations trample the holy temple. But according to Revelation 11:2, the church should not be included there. How then could the people in 7:9 be those who come out of the three and a half years of great tribulation?
(8) The three and a half years of great tribulation are especially related to the Jews. Daniel 12:1 says, "And there will be a time of distress, such as never occurred since there came to be a nation until that time; and at that time your people, every one found written in the book, will be delivered." This passage together with Matthew 24:16-18 describes the condition of the Jews in particular. God's main goal in having the great tribulation is to deal with the Jews. In Jeremiah 30:7 the time of Jacob's trouble clearly refers to the Jews. The tribulation spoken of in Revelation in several passages points to the church (e.g., 1:9; 2:9-10, 13). John 16:33 also says that affliction is the portion of the church in the world. The time is long, and the suffering is hard. That is why it is called "great." But it is not the three and a half years of the "great tribulation." The "great tribulation" in Revelation 2:22 is different from that in 7:14 in the original text. It is also different from the great tribulation of the three and a half years elsewhere mentioned in Revelation. (In Acts 14:22 the phrase "through many tribulations we must enter into the kingdom of God" refers to the experiences of the ones who are entering into the kingdom of God.)
3. Revelation 7:14b
"And they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."
The word "robes" here is plural. Robes, plural, signify righteousnesses. But here the righteousness is the righteousness of the saints themselves; it does not refer to the Lord Jesus Christ as our righteousness. Robe, singular, refers to the righteousness (Isa. 61:10) which is Christ Himself (Jer. 23:6). Christ is our righteousness (1 Cor. 1:30). We put Him on to come before God. This righteousness does not need to be washed in the blood.
We have two robes. One robe, through which we come before God, was put on at salvation. The other robe is the righteousness of our own conduct; it is our victory through which we come before Christ. In Revelation 3:18 the white garment (the second one) requires the paying of a price, but the redemption typified in the former case does not need to be purchased. No Christian will be condemned by God to perdition (John 5:24), but neither will there be a single Christian who will not be judged before the judgment seat of Christ concerning his conduct (2 Cor. 5:10). Their robes were cleansed not because of the great tribulation, but because of the blood of the Lamb. They applied the blood of the Lamb to their robes. This shows that they were contaminated on earth; nevertheless, they practiced 1 John 1:9 all the time so that they were cleansed.
-Study of Revelations by Watchman Nee

 2012/2/14 11:48Profile









 Re:

Pilgrim, I don't see what your initial post or those that followed after, had anything whatsoever to do with Corrie's messages and as far as I'm concerned - you and Blaine destroyed a thread that was going to be centered on Corrie Ten Boom and what she stood for.
I had two more YouTube's by her, ready to put up, about GOD's Love and another on Forgiveness of Enemies to post next - but somehow - I feel to not participate any longer where there are thread killers that take someone like Corrie Ten Boom and go so off-track and accuse any here that posted to this thread as not doing anything for the Kingdom because she mentioned tribulation and persecution.
This is shear insanity and I'm very disturbed that neither of you see that is exactly what you both have brought to this precious lady's messages.


There's no sense in posting anymore messages by CORRIE TEN BOOM here, but I will say - She did so very-very much more for the Kingdom of GOD than those that destroyed this thread do and the main thing - was her message of her 'character' - the two things missing on this thread now.



Have a nice life, you two 'men'.

 2012/2/14 12:10
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

My apologies to you Jesus-is-God for the "rabbit trails."

Your words are sharp and strong.

It often happens in conversation that people bring up other ideas as they are stimulated by the original conversation to think of other things.

Please forgive us and take your thread back on topic.

Much peace to you,
Pilgrim

 2012/2/14 12:55Profile









 Re: JiG

Sister nobody has tried to hijack or kill your thread. We all have been impacted by the marvelous ministry of Corrie. I simply felt you misunderstood Pilgrims posted intentions. My apologies. This will be my last post on your thread. Did not mean to cause you distress. Please do bring your thread back on track for the edification of the body.

Peace and blessings,

Blaine

 2012/2/14 14:20





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