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Discussion Forum : Devotional Thoughts : Abraham, My Friend_54

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philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
What does Ezekiel 20 teach? Did God have a covenant with those who lived during the 430 years in Egypt and what covenant were they under? What did God ask of His people while they lived under His covenant?


Sometimes covenants are sub-sets of other covenants. The whole world, including the people who became 'Israel' were already under Noah's covenant. (Gen 9:8-17
The covenant enjoined upon the people in Egypt was 'added for the sake of transgressions until the Seed should come to whom the promise was made'. It was essentialy and I-you covenant. ('you' being plural; it had a corporate application.
The Abraham covenant was always an I-thou (a person to person) covenant which required renewal in every generation.

Ezekiel 20 was addressed to a remnant of a remnant, and reminds them of the day that God 'chose Israel'. It reminds them that God lifted up His hand (took an oath)to bring them in (Ezek 20:5) and later lifted up his hand (took an oath) that He would [u]not[/u] bring them in! (EZek 20:15) He took another oath that He would scatter them among the heathen. (Ezek 20:23)

The passage continues in prophecy that God will give the house of Israel a choice for the future. (20:39) 'Israel' must choose, but all that chose to serve Him in the land are now designated 'Israel'. This is an Israel from out of Israel. (20:40) This 'Israel' would experience deep repentance (20:43) But this is the consequence (see also 36:23-38 and esp v31) of regeneration. This is not a general promise exclusive to 'Israel' but to the 'Israel out of Israel', later described by Paul as 'the Israel of God' (Gal 6:16) an Israel which includes all in Christ; [i]For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.[/i] (Gal 6:15-16 KJV)


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Ron Bailey

 2005/2/2 5:21Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

Ezek. 20:5 “Say to them, “Thus says the Lord GOD: “On the day when I chose Israel and raised My hand in an oath to the descendants of the house of Jacob, and made Myself known to them in the land of Egypt, I raised My hand in an oath to them, saying, ‘I am the LORD your God.’ 6 On that day I raised My hand in an oath to them, to bring them out of the land of Egypt into a land that I had searched out for them, “flowing with milk and honey,’ the glory of all lands. 7 Then I said to them, “Each of you, throw away the abominations which are before his eyes, and do not defile yourselves with the idols of Egypt. I am the LORD your God.’


Brother Ron wrote:


Quote:
The Abraham covenant was always an I-thou (a person to person) covenant which required renewal in every generation.



In the preceeding verses, God states that He would be their God and He called on “Each of you," to remove all things that is not holy.

So I do agree with you that the Abrahamic Covenant is between God and each individual. I also submit that what we see in verses 5 through 7 is the testimony of God establishing His covenant in that generation.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2005/2/3 15:57Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
[u]Jeff writes:[/u] I also submit that what we see in verses 5 through 7 is the testimony of God establishing His covenant in that generation.


It is, clearly. This was the Sinai Covenant; known also as the Old Covenant. Do you mean [u]only[/u] that generation? Are you implying that it had to be re-established with [u]succeeding[/u] generation?


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Ron Bailey

 2005/2/3 16:21Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

No.

I believe verses 5-7 of Ezekiel 20 describe the Abrahamic Covenant that was made to the generation from the time Moses was a baby until he returned 80 later.

God made the covenant with Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and each generation in their time. So Joseph, in his generation also recieved the Oath that God would be his God. Joseph's sons also recieved the same covenant with in their generation.

When does this covenant ever end?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2005/2/4 11:33Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
I believe verses 5-7 of Ezekiel 20 describe the Abrahamic Covenant that was made to the generation from the time Moses was a baby until he returned 80 later.


I think you are mistaken. These verses have Egypt as their setting; in each of the three verses the word Egypt is repeated. Deliverance from Egypt was never part of the Abraham covenant.

This is the covenant referred to in Ezekiel 16 where God addresses it to Jerusalem; v8 declares 'I entered into a covenant with thee'; this was at least 800 years after Sinai and the people of Moses. It was to last for far longer than a generation. In fact, until He should come to whom the promise was made. This covenant lasted the whole age of the Law.


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Ron Bailey

 2005/2/4 15:45Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

God told Abraham:

Genesis 15:

13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years; 14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance. 15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age. 16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

God promised this to Abraham that He would be God to his seed in each of their generations. It is through faith that a remnant has always existed according to grace. The remnant exists through faith.

Ezekiel 20:

8 But they rebelled against Me and would not obey Me. They did not all cast away the abominations which were before their eyes, nor did they forsake the idols of Egypt. Then I said, “I will pour out My fury on them and fulfill My anger against them in the midst of the land of Egypt.’ 9 But I acted for My name’s sake, that it should not be profaned before the Gentiles among whom they were, in whose sight I had made Myself known to them, to bring them out of the land of Egypt.

At what time did they rebell according to these Scriptures? Before or after God led them out of Egypt?


In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2005/2/7 11:18Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

Further more, Stephen spoke:

Acts 7:
8 Then He gave him the covenant of circumcision; and so Abraham begot Isaac and circumcised him on the eighth day; and Isaac begot Jacob, and Jacob begot the twelve patriarchs.

What is the covenant of circumcision. Is it part of the Abrahamic covenant?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2005/2/7 11:34Profile





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