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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Some Quotations On The Biblical View Of Headcovering

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pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

You're right, Sean. I'm sorry. Please continue.

Maybe that STOP was for me. :-)

God bless,
Pilgrim

 2012/2/8 17:27Profile









 Re:

"Wow..talking about God's word is a waste of time, but the talking about the Super Bowl isn't. Nice. "

That's a good observation Sean. I think you have been very honest in your dialog on the topic of covering. Many people are prejudiced by the feministic spirit in the american churches, because of previous abuses, for some sisters its just not a topic that the Lord is dealing with now. Because of this we should be as graceful with others as we want them to be with us and I think you have been very graceful here. The only haughtiness I have seen is in some of those opposing you.

In Christ -Jim

 2012/2/8 17:30
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

Sean

Greetings :)

Its a fair question you ask and I will do my best to answer(although my hubby could do better I am sure) I have to go cook dinner now but will do my best to return and respond soon. Did not want you to think I am avoiding your question :)

God Bless
mary

 2012/2/8 17:31Profile









 Re:


ONLY because it's been brought up so often and it only brings about a lofty spirit out of some folks and definitely divisions in The Body - whereas, other topics that have the SAME affect are locked or prohibited - such as, the Calvinism versus Arminianism debate. Same dilemma exactly and equally sorrowful here.

 2012/2/8 17:34









 Re:

"I've been on the forum in the past and been in hundreds of discussions covering a wide variety of topics. It's not the only thing I want to discuss, it's just what I'm discussing now. And in fact, I didn't even start this thread, Greg did. So if people don't like this thread and the topic, they should really direct their replies to Greg. "

I have known Sean for a long time and besides me asking him a question about this in the past - I have only heard him talking about this recently.

On a side note - Sister MaryJane - God bless you and yours in Christ Jesus. I hope you are well in Him!

 2012/2/8 17:35









 Re:

Hi Solomon,

I appreciate you taking the time to respond and address my concerns. Really, your the first on that has done that. While I agree with some of what you said, I think you're proving my point. Let me show you what I mean, and please let me know what you think.
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You said: "Here is the thought on the "cultural" idea. What if in my neighborhood women wear head coverings as a sign to show they are in rebellion to their husbands and have now embraced extreme feminism, and often bisexuality, now having homosexual partners along with their husbands.

In this example the "sign of submission" is no longer a sign of submission to her husband at all. It is a sign of total rebellion. The issue is SUBMISSION not the emblem used."

Again, this is appealing to the culture and not the scriptures.
-----------------

You said: "Paul only used the head covering emblem in the Corinth letter, no others."

Yes, but Paul said that the churches had no practice of women remaning uncovered and men covered. If we use this argument, then we have to say that the Lord's Supper is only applicable to the Corinthians because it's not mentioned to the Ephesians or Galatians or Romans. We also have to say his instructions about church practice that is found in the following chapters only applies to the Corinthians as well. That sounds like a slippery slope that allows us to pick and chose what we want to accept or not.
-----------------------------

You said: "I think if you will do some deeper cultural research from that century you will find that the head covering was not a universally recognized sign of submission even in Paul's day for many of the cultures of the time."

That actually proves my point that it is not cultural. You say that some cultures did not recognize the sign of submission, yet Paul say this is the practice of all the churches. So you have churches in different cultures practicing what Paul has said in spite of their culture.

-------------------------------

You said: "What if a lady wears the head covering but is in rebellion to her husband on every front in the home, family, and community? Does she meet God's command of submission? Of course not... even though she is wearing a head covering."

I totally agree. A woman can be in complete rebellion even while she's covered. But that could apply to any biblical truth. Someone could be in complete rebellion even if they are a pastor. Someone could be in complete rebellion even if they are helping the poor. So I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

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"What if a lady learns in meekness, submits to and honors her husband as Christ commanded even though she is not wearing a head covering. Is she condemned? Of course not. She is doing right in God's eyes by her heart, actions, and attitudes."

Actually, God will and does very often bless us in spite of ourselves. Every one of us can testify to Gods grace in the way He's dealt with us. But that doesn't mean that everything we do is approved by Him. It just means that God is good and merciful.

-----------------------------------

You said: "Paul wrote to a specific people in a specific place at a specific time in a specific culture in the Corinthian letter. It wasn't written to 2012 America.

I understand that. But if we just look at the scriptures, specifically the passages that deal with this subject, you will find that all of Paul's reasonings for this practice are transcultural - meaning they are true for all cultures. Again, his basis for this practice is Christ submission to God, the Angles, Mans glory, the common sense teaching of nature, and the practice of the churches.
------------------------------------

You said: "We must extract the core meaning that the Holy Spirit intended them to understand and then apply that to our lives in the world we live in today."

Can we do this with other passages, say like women elders. Or since we live in a feminist culture, can we say that the woman is head of man, since that is the case in a lot of homes?
--------------------------------------

I know there's always gonna be a division on this and MANY other biblical topics. But it's good to know why people believe what they believe. I used to believe this was cultural too, not because the scriptures said it was cultural, but because that's what everyone said, and because head coverings seemed like an odd thing. But you know what? Tongues and prophecy are odd too, and they are not cultural.

Thanks again for taking the time to explain what you believe.


 2012/2/8 17:51









 Re:

Thanks Mary, I look forward to reading it. :)

 2012/2/8 17:54
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

I think we need to ask Greg. What motive is behind this post along with his Moravian study. Sounds to me that the Moravian women wore head coverings. We must see Gregs heart for revival. What say Greg? Are we grasping for straws of revival in desperation for wanting God to move. He will, but in His timing. I pray this is edifing and not a faction to destruction, even though there must be factions to approve those in the will of God in the Body of Christ His Church.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2012/2/8 18:10Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1522
Germany NRW

 Re: Some Quotations On The Biblical View Of Headcovering

What is so difficult about the passage? It is as simple as stop at red and go at green. The problem is not with understanding but simply with trusting the bible as God's word and obeying it.

1 Corinthians 11 KJV
10For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels. NKJV
10 For this reason the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.

16But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

 2012/2/8 18:16Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1953


 Re:

Quote:

I think we need to ask Greg. What motive is behind this post along with his Moravian study. Sounds to me that the Moravian women wore head coverings. We must see Gregs heart for revival. What say Greg? Are we grasping for straws of revival in desperation for wanting God to move. He will, but in His timing. I pray this is edifing and not a faction to destruction, even though there must be factions to approve those in the will of God in the Body of Christ His Church.



I am not willing to argue with anyone, nor I am I trying to Answer for Greg. I did not get involved in any of these covering related thread. I just wanted to post my opinion on the Cultural thoughts.

Head covering command from Paul CANNOT be ignored as a command that is Culturally motivated. This is because Paul does not say that Head should be covered as a symbol to the people. If it is to the people then the symbol varies based on culture followed by people. But here it is a Symbol to Angels, who are the same irrespective of Culture and time.

Secondly if we ignore a command considering that it is specific for a culture then we can also ignore the part where 'Women submission to men' as a cultural thing. How?
Because in those days women did not work and they played no role in Economy. Only men were known by their trade like Simon the tanner etc. But in this culture women have their own trade (business or work). Hence they are no longer dependent on men. So why should they submit to Husband when they earn more than Husband? I am just giving it as an example to prove that if we start ignoring things out of scripture in the name of Culture then we can keep doing it endlessly.

Having said all these things, let me tell you my point here. We are in New Covenant where we live by Spirit and not by Letter. Which means we keep the Spirit of every law and not the letter of the law. So the spirit of Head covering is submission. If a women feels that she is keeping the spirit of this command then let us not force her on the letter. But if she feels that this is a command given to every women by God then let her fulfill it completely. In both cases the importance should be given to the spirit of submission.

My wife covers her head in meetings and she did her Education in US, working and living in US, so culture is not an issue here. She feels it is a command that God gave her and she wants to fully keep it.



_________________
Sreeram

 2012/2/8 18:27Profile





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