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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : Head Coverings/Governmental Order - Watchman Nee

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ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4670


 Re:

Hi Pilgrim,

Quote:

============================================================
On a personal level, I don't know if I could ever meet another woman who sincerely submits to both the Lord and the priest of her home as my wife has done in the few years that we have been married (and to her father before that).
============================================================

Did you leave some words out or am I just being dense?

Blessings to you,
Pilgrim



I apologize if this wasn't very clear. What I was trying to express is that my wife -- who feels that she is "covered" even without holding to a compulsion or requirement to wear a physical cloth -- is among the most spiritually submissive women that I have ever known. She sincerely submits to our Lord and her husband (me).

I agree that there may be some "fishing" going on. Again, I don't have a problem with those who are merely fishing for a discussion or even clarity. Yet, it seems that there are many issues that are discussed with gentleness UNTIL someone shares their particular view on that issue and presents it as the Truth (purposely or inadvertently dismissing the views of anyone and/or everyone else).

Sadly, I suspect that if anyone here -- including many of the men of God whose messages are included on this website -- were to reveal ALL of their doctrinal conclusions that they have drawn or come to believe about every matter under the sun (from Scripture), they would be met with considerable reproach from many very sincere believers.

Like you mentioned, there are "essentials" and there are "non-essentials." I can respect a man like Leonard Ravenhill even if I don't know (or care to know) how he interprets every last topic in Scripture.

When I met him in his home (as a young teenager), Brother Ravenhill spent some time asking me questions. I almost felt nervous by what he asked. However, he wasn't asking where I stood on head coverings, music or participation in athletics. He didn't ask me about what version of the Bible I use, what words were spoken when I was water-baptized, or whether or not I believe that women can serve in ministry. Rather, he asked questions to ascertain my passion for Christ. After a few minutes, he "heard" that passion that is kindred in those who love the Lord.

Most of those who participate in these forums have a passion for the Lord. We all come from different backgrounds (including doctrinal, denominational, educational, age, nationality) and from different levels of maturity in our walk with Christ. Over the years, I have seen people come and people go here at SermonIndex (and in local congregations with which I shared fellowship). Some left when they were offended by what someone else said. Others left because they felt that they were "casting pearls" to "swine" (and even said as much). Others were compelled to leave because of the division or problems that they were causing.

Still, the fact that we congregate within a forum located on a website that contains thousands of meaty messages from many different men of God shows that few who comment here are "easy" believers. Most of us come here because of the messages that are contained here. Those messages are not "easy listening" -- but heart enthralling messages that provoke us to desperation for our Lord. Many of us are also attracted to the fellowship with other believers who are undoubtedly sincere and/or hungry for good Christian fellowship that we might not find even in our local churches.

When we engage in sharp debate with others, we often do so because we are so "certain" of what we have been taught or have come to believe. Yet, I feel that there is something wrong when our beliefs on "non-essential" doctrines cause us to break fellowship (or begin to "suspect" the motives or spiritual conditions) from sincere believers who might not hold to those same "non-essential" views.

Anyway, I hope that I am not adding to any divisiveness through all of these types of discussions. Hopefully, my eyes are so yearning to look upon the face of the Lord that I am not distracted by even the most spiritual of discussions. After all, it is difficult to hold animosity toward someone when we both have our eyes steadfast upon the Lord with a desire to please Him in all manners of speech and thought.

The Lord bless you!


_________________
Christopher

 2012/2/7 18:31Profile









 Re:

Also,

when I said "The people that pretend to be the most “loving” and anti-legalist strike me as being the most fake." I did not intend for the brunt of that to be directed at the person who questioned if Sean knew Jesus. Sorry if it seemed that way. The problems we have communicating in this computer age.

Jim

 2012/2/7 18:32
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

Thanks for taking the time to share your heart, Chris.

Quote:
I apologize if this wasn't very clear. What I was trying to express is that my wife -- who feels that she is "covered" even without holding to a compulsion or requirement to wear a physical cloth -- is among the most spiritually submissive women that I have ever known. She sincerely submits to our Lord and her husband (me).



I feel the same way about my wife, too.

Quote:
I agree that there may be some "fishing" going on. Again, I don't have a problem with those who are merely fishing for a discussion or even clarity. Yet, it seems that there are many issues that are discussed with gentleness UNTIL someone shares their particular view on that issue and presents it as the Truth (purposely or inadvertently dismissing the views of anyone and/or everyone else).



This is where discernment and the cross comes in. Best, just to let a person say what they obviously need to say and restrain (self-control) oneself if you don't agree. And definitely respond in love in all cases. I'm sorry that I may not have done that.

Quote:
Sadly, I suspect that if anyone here -- including many of the men of God whose messages are included on this website -- were to reveal ALL of their doctrinal conclusions that they have drawn or come to believe about every matter under the sun (from Scripture), they would be met with considerable reproach from many very sincere believers.



And that is probably why they don't share some of those private beliefs. Wisdom..

Quote:
Like you mentioned, there are "essentials" and there are "non-essentials." I can respect a man like Leonard Ravenhill even if I don't know (or care to know) how he interprets every last topic in Scripture.

When I met him in his home (as a young teenager), Brother Ravenhill spent some time asking me questions. I almost felt nervous by what he asked. However, he wasn't asking where I stood on head coverings, music or participation in athletics. He didn't ask me about what version of the Bible I use, what words were spoken when I was water-baptized, or whether or not I believe that women can serve in ministry. Rather, he asked questions to ascertain my passion for Christ. After a few minutes, he "heard" that passion that is kindred in those who love the Lord.



Leonard's son David is a delight. I had a chance to sit down with him over lunch and he was just a very nice brother. I was invited to a Zac Poonen conference once and really enjoyed it but was a bit put off when a friend of mine confronted Zac after one of the meetings and said to him, "there is only one church in one city". I thought, "His first words to Zac and that is what he says"? Zac was cool and calm and replied, "So, what's your point"? My friend was dumbfounded and just repeated what he said. Well, from God's point of view I suppose that is right, there is only one church in one city, but let's not be legalistic about it, right? How in the world would we get all the Christians in a huge city into one building for a gathering let alone a living room? I thought it was kind of a strange statement. But, that is legalism for you. Zac was kind to him and I appreciated his attitude towards my friend (who is still my friend and brother).

Quote:
Most of those who participate in these forums have a passion for the Lord. We all come from different backgrounds (including doctrinal, denominational, educational, age, nationality) and from different levels of maturity in our walk with Christ. Over the years, I have seen people come and people go here at SermonIndex (and in local congregations with which I shared fellowship). Some left when they were offended by what someone else said. Others left because they felt that they were "casting pearls" to "swine" (and even said as much). Others were compelled to leave because of the division or problems that they were causing.

When we engage in sharp debate with others, we often do so because we are so "certain" of what we have been taught or have come to believe. Yet, I feel that there is something wrong when our beliefs on "non-essential" doctrines cause us to break fellowship (or begin to "suspect" the motives or spiritual conditions) from sincere believers who might not hold to those same "non-essential" views.

Anyway, I hope that I am not adding to any divisiveness through all of these types of discussions. Hopefully, my eyes are so yearning to look upon the face of the Lord that I am not distracted by even the most spiritual of discussions. After all, it is difficult to hold animosity toward someone when we both have our eyes steadfast upon the Lord with a desire to please Him in all manners of speech and thought.

The Lord bless you!



Good words, Chris. I've learned a big lesson the last couple of days.

Thanks,
Pilgrim

 2012/2/7 19:04Profile









 Re: I am the one with evil heart.

I Blaine Scogin am the evil, vile wicked one who asked Sean if he knew Jesus because frankly I could not tell from his post. There are people who post in this forum and sometime you wonder where they stand with the Lord. I have looked at Sean's web site and say yes he is a believer. But I still fo not understand why the head covering is the basis of our acceptance with Christ .

Now I the vile reprobate will absent myself from this forum and go pray for the persecuted. For at least they appreciate the prayers of a wicked sinner Luke me.

Blaine Scogin

 2012/2/7 19:17









 Re:

"But I still do not understand why the head covering is the basis of our acceptance with Christ ."

I never said that. Why can't we talk about a BIBLICAL passage without everyone jumping to conclusions and making assumptions - or saying the passage is irrelevant? Are there sections of God's Word that we are not allowed to talk about? My bible doesn't have black marks through certain passages of scripture so that I won't talk about them. Do I need a different bible? Is all scripture profitable or just some portions?

It seems like people should be able to talk about any portion of scripture, have a conversation about the passages, and keep it at that. I posted two articles on head coverings, and asked people to discuss them and the scriptures they reference. Instead, people talked about everything else and made all sorts of accusations.

I'll probably bow out too, considering how hard it is to discuss the scriptures here.

 2012/2/7 19:50









 Re:

I just saw this thread and the first thing that popped into my head was, lets bring out the big guns. "Lets get a great man of God in here (watchman Nee) no one will dare and disagree with him."

I won't be one of the ones that will be caught to disagree with this beloved martyr of God.

But I will say this, I have never seen so much passion driven on this website over this one issue in so many days as we have had it. And not just one thread but several on this one topic.

 2012/2/7 20:19









 Re:

Chris, that was an excellent summation of what the forum is all about. I was very blessed reading your post. Bless you and yours!

 2012/2/7 20:26









 Re:

"I just saw this thread and the first thing that popped into my head was, lets bring out the big guns. "Lets get a great man of God in here (watchman Nee) no one will dare and disagree with him."

Hey Approved,

Just wanted to say your judgment is wrong. I disagree with many things that Watchman Nee says. But I thought this was a very well done article.

It's crazy, you get slammed for posting articles by know preachers. So what I've learned from returning to the forums is that you can't really discuss the scriptures, and you can't really post articles by know preachers.

Guess its time to leave again.

 2012/2/7 20:27









 Re:

"Just wanted to say your judgment is wrong."


Whoa, back up there. I wasn't judging, I was telling everyone what I was thinking when I saw this thread. I don't know your motive or intentions.

 2012/2/7 20:36









 Re:

"So what I've learned from returning to the forums is that you can't really discuss the scriptures,"


You are absolutely correct,, you can't.

At least not this subject.

If you noticed Admin Greg has strongly recommended NOT to discuss certain subjects on this site because the passion levels can reach quite high. So for the sake of peace it's not worth discussing. This subject falls in the same category. There are many many other subjects to talk about, I suggest talking about them.

There is no reason to leave on account of that, as I said there are many other subjects to graze on, the Pastures are rich with them.

I wish nothing but the best for you. Be Blessed.

 2012/2/7 20:42





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