SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Prayer and Fasting

Print Thread (PDF)

PosterThread
WayneFerrel
Member



Joined: 2005/1/21
Posts: 18
Raytown, MO

 Prayer and Fasting

Prayer and Fasting,
In Matthew 17:21 NKJV reads:"However, this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting"
Why do some Bible versions leave out fasting?
Why do some omit the whole verse?
Wayne


_________________
Wayne Ferrel

 2005/1/21 17:56Profile
KeithLaMothe
Member



Joined: 2004/3/28
Posts: 354


 Re: Prayer and Fasting

There are several passages where some versions omit words or the entire passage. Look at the end of Mark (last 12 verses or so) in the KJV (or NKJV, perhaps) and then look at it in the NIV. The NIV will have an interesting note.

It's due to the different manuscript families used: the KJV (and NKJV, supposedly) go with what's called the [i]Textus Receptus[/i] (Received Text), largely a Byzantine text family (that is, based on manuscripts found around the area of Byzantium/Constantinople/Istanbul), whereas the NIV (and NASB, and most of the modern versions) go with what's sometimes called the Compiled Text, and tends to draw heavily on the Alexandrian text family (that is, based on manuscripts found around the area of Alexandria) and notably two very old codices called [i]Codex Sinaiticus[/i] and [i]Codex Vaticanus[/i] (I think I spelled those right).

The differences are very rare and tend to be extremely minor in terms of the overall message and what doctrines can be shown from the text (indeed, it is contended, and I know of no counterexample, that no essential doctrine cannot be shown from either text family), but the last 12 or so verses of Mark and the story in John of Jesus and the woman caught in adultery (remember "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone"?) are generally not in the Compiled Text, and there are a few other verses where some people get rather vociferous in their defense of a particular text family.

 2005/1/21 18:21Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2768
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: Prayer and Fasting

Here's something from Adam Clarke's commentary on this verse from Matthew;

[i]The whole verse is wanting in the famous Vatican MS., one of the most ancient and most authentic perhaps in the world; and in another one of Colbert’s, written in the 11th or 12th century. It is wanting also in the Coptic, Ethiopic, Syriac, Hieros., and in one copy of the Itala. But all the MSS. acknowledge it in the parallel place, Mar_9:29, only the Vatican MS. leaves out νηϚεια, fasting. I strongly suspect it to be an interpolation; but, if it be, it is very ancient, as Origen, Chrysostom, and others of the primitive fathers, acknowledged it.[/i]

In Christ,

Ron


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2005/1/21 18:33Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2768
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: Prayer and Fasting

This is a passage of Scripture that I have been studying recently and I thought I would share something that I saw in this passage that was edifying to me, maybe it will edify you also;

You will recall that verse 21 is part of the Lord's response to the disciples when they asked Him why they couldn't cast out a demon. It's important to note that He responds in verse 20 with, "because of your unbelief". He relates their lack of power to their faith. So in verse 21 he is not telling us that it is the prayer and fasting themselves that cast out the demon but that the faith that we need can be found in those times of prayer and fasting. The revelation of divine facts, upon which faith can have a firm foundation, is found in the quiet times, waiting on the Lord.


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2005/1/21 19:08Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
and there are a few other verses where some people get rather vociferous in their defense of a particular text family.


vociferous? Christians? surely not? :-D


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/1/21 19:11Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Hi Bro. Ron B.

Quote:
vociferous? Christians? surely not?



Judging by that big smile I'm sure you have a answer for this question. I seem to recall (in my limited studies of the various manuscripts) that the Byzantine manuscripts were inferior to the Alexandrian. Yet, I could never reconcile how that could be if in fact they were used by Erasmus for what would come to be the Textus Receptus. The TR was used for the AV (KJV). As I recall there were:

1) Alexandrian
2) Byzantine
3) Western Texts

I know you discussed these things at length in other places; care to throw out a little blurb here? BTW I speak more King James than Greek.

God Bless,

-Robert


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2005/1/22 23:50Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy