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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : HISTORIC PREMILLENNIALISM WITH A VICTORIOUS CHURCH

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Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

Please explain from a post trib and post mellinial doctrine where the dead in Christ and those alive in Christ are caught up to. Will we forever be with the Lord, where? These are supposed to be comforting words. What comfort? If we are here in tribulation never before seen or never will be seen again, what comfort?

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

If we believe what? """For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again,"""

Where are we to meet the Lord? "IN THE AIR"

Is Isreal caught up with those that are in Christ? I don't see where they can be the same, unless they are individual Jews who are no longer Jews or individual Gentiles who are no longer Gentiles' but, "in Christ", Israel has different promises.

In Christ:Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2012/2/6 14:52Profile
Sidewalk
Member



Joined: 2011/11/11
Posts: 710
San Diego

 Re: Caught up.

Paris Reidhead humbly tells the story of how he just knew that when he finally arrived on the mission field he would suddenly become the marvelously spiritual Christian he'd always wanted to be. After the long sea voyage and the arduous trek into the African interior he arrived at his mission station only to discover that he was still the same guy. Same attitudes, same lonely despair, just worse food and tough camping. The physical location had made no difference to his spiritual condition.

I fear that some of my well meaning pre-trib rapture believing friends are of a similar mind-set. Waiting to be "caught up," they envision being whisked through the air to some place where they will be in the presence of a guy with a long beard, a full length white bathrobe, and two fingers in the air connoting peace....and a table for two.

"Caught up" should be no mystery. Jesus demonstrated that glory on the mount of transfiguration, but the gift of the Holy Spirit to believers gives each of us a taste- a first-fruits if you will, of what being caught up is all about. I certainly remember my initial experience in 1964 like it was yesterday, being filled with a love for Jesus so big, so strong it almost hurt. I blubbered and laughed, cried, busy repenting and shaking as the new language twisted it's sweet song between the English words I knew needed to be spoken. It was holy euphoria, and I was so clean clean, clean on the inside where I'd never been clean before.

Caught up? Yes, I have been there! Am I perfectly conformed into the image of Christ? Oh so very well I know that I am not! But I have tasted it, and everything within longs for the final fullness of that. I long to be caught up, and it has nothing to do with going into the sky. It has everything to do with being completed into my savior.

Paul's words in Romans 8 lead me to believe that we will see a restored creation that will amaze us. I believe Paul had a grasp of the words Jesus spoke commanding the disciples to pray that the will of God be done in the earth the same as it is in heaven.

I don't know any more than anyone else. But it seems to me that the action when Jesus comes in glory, is right here. The birth pangs will yield a magnificent Son who will be caught up to God and to His throne- whatever all that means, it looks like we're going to be a part of it!

I can't wait!


_________________
Tom Cameron

 2012/2/9 0:08Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

You are correct in that Christ has come in the flesh of men, by His Spirit the Word of God Himself the incorruptable Seed of the Father, born again in the believer.

This is not His promise of coming and receiving us to Himself, in the Fathers House where He is preparing for us a place. Where is this place, not on this earth. Where is the Fathers House? When it comes down and takes it's place in the Heavenly Jerusalem, on this earth by the Mt of Olives, This Jerusalem not made with hands, we who this place has been prepared are in the Father's House where we belong with Christ who prepared it for His own, we the son's of God by the finished work Of The Only Begotten Son of the Father, who is the first fruit of many brethern, we are the latter fruits born of the Father by the Son that is born again in us. He will come and bring us to Himself and we will rule and reign with Him on this earth for 1000 years.



""" What it all means "to prepare a place for you" we cannot fully know, but we know that His great work has removed every barrier for all who believe on Him, and in God's own time the full redemption of the purchased possession by the power of God will be accomplished. (Eph 1:14.) Then His unfulfilled promise, "I will come again and receive you unto myself, that where I am ye may be also," will be fulfilled. He did not mean the death of His disciples. The death of the believer is not the coming of Himself to the child of God, but when the believer dies he goes to be with Christ. "I will come again" means His coming for those who belong to Him, His Saints. How He will redeem this gracious promise and lead His own into the blessed home, is not revealed here. But He gave it in the form of a special revelation to the Apostle of the Gentiles. (1Th 4:13-18.) Thomas speaks first. He misunderstood the words of the Lord and was troubled with unbelief. Yet Thomas loved the Lord and was greatly attached to Him, as we learn from Chapter 11:16. Blessed answer he received. "I am the way";--He is the only way to God and to the Father's house; "the Truth";-- the revelation of the Father; and "the Life" as well.""" By Gaebelein's Annoted Bible.

Jesus has come in the flesh of men, "Christ in you the hope of glory", but He will come again and receive us unto Himself.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Be with the Lord forever in the Father's House. These are truly comforting words.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2012/2/9 13:57Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1572
Scotland, UK

 Re:

XII. HISTORIC PREMILLENNIALISM WITH A VICTORIOUS CHURCH

A. The strength of this view is found in combining the biblical strengths of postmillennialism and amillennialism with historic premillennialism and the call to victory and wholeheartedness.

B. A victorious Church: attains to unity, intimacy, and maturity, resulting in the greatest revival in history (Eph. 4:13). This prophetic praying Church will walk in great power as it is used to bring in the end-time harvest and to transform society in various places.

C. A wholehearted Church: walks in “Sermon on the Mount lifestyles” of self-denial and serving, giving, blessing, praying, and fasting as seen in the New Testament Church (Mt. 5-7). This lifestyle will be energized by encountering Jesus as the Bridegroom God (Rev. 22:17).

D. A relevant Church: sees the continuity of some of our labors in impacting society now (righteous legislation, education, etc.) with the work of Jesus in the Millennium. All that is unrighteous will be dismantled and then re-established in righteousness in the Millennium. However, righteous legislation in society in this age will not need to be replaced. Works in society built on godliness and justice will last beyond the shaking of the tribulation judgments.

This is just The Manifest Sons of God teaching painted up and refreshed.................


_________________
Colin Murray

 2012/2/9 14:14Profile





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