Many members on SI believe that todays churches are facing spiritual darkness. So, you can expect to see numerous flaws in every church, and you will have to decide which ones you can live with, and which ones you cant live with. Factors you might consider are: scriptural rootedness, the churchs effectiveness in community ministry, its success in making mature believers, or its ability to nurture children, heal broken marriage or addictions. Music may be a key factor, or legalism
The list could go on and on and on. Early in his Christian life, Rees Howells, a man who became well known for his prayer life, decided that he would not join any church where God was not answering prayer. That was his most important criteria. Then there is your purpose for joining a church. If your aim is to serve and edify the people, then which flaws might be a hindrance to your sense of calling? You are the one who must decide what flaws you can live with and what flaws you cannot accept. Your thread title may suggest what is the most critical factor for you. And yet it may be that God can use and teach you in a church even with this most noticeable flaw. Diane
Thank you all for your inputs. I have taken all your answers into consideration. Though I don't think women teaching is in the major doctrine area (by that I mean it interfere's with soteriology), I do believe it is important to follow Gods created order. For many, this is a much debated subject, but to me the answer is obvious that a woman should not teach over men. I was just never faced with having to bend or "accept" that in a possible church home because I feel that the church is as good as it's going to get for now. Anyway, thank you for the inputs and prayers.By the way, please don't confront my doctrinal stance by quoting me and countering it. I am not interested in that in this thread. I am simply trying to gain wisdom on whether or not I should go to this church. God bless you all. Love you guys.
The three Major passages which address the subject of this thread are: 1) 1 Corinthians 11:2-162) 1 Corinthians 14:33-383) 1 Timothy 2:11-15. In each of these,God's called apostle,Paul,is inspired by the Spirit of Messiah Who created the world to bring our hearts and minds back to the [Genesis]beginning. He does so to show us that this teaching is in accord with the order of the creation account.1 Cor. 11:7-9 For indeed a man ought not to be having the head covered, being [the] image and glory of God, but a woman is [the] glory of a man. For man is not from woman, but woman from man. [see Gen 2:21-23] For also man was not created for the sake of the woman, but woman for the sake of the man. [see Gen 2:18]1 Cor. 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches; for it is not permitted to them to speak: but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. Note: Re: "...they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law." Paul is referencing Genesis [the beginning] 3:16 where God says,, "thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee". Such is significant of God's appointed authority,rule and government. That which is contrary to that obedience and subjection is no less than rebellion. All such who usurp such authority are in transgression of His Holy Law and Order of women unto men.1 Tim. 2:13 for Adam was first formed, then Eve.God has a created order and has set not only the stars in their place,and boundaries for the waters,but for men and women as well. And none can move the stars or the waters but God,nor should there be any attempt by us to alter that authority structure God established for men and women at the time of creation. Any who are of such a mind stand guilty before their Creator. The objection that these passages are culturally conditioned,and consequently rejected as such, are also removed by Paul when he says, "thatthe things which I write to you are the commandments ofthe Lord"(1 Corinthians 14:37). To those who come up with words such as, "And you are too late to tell me that women cant preach...", my answer is that you are the one who is too late. The Eternal One and His Genesis are before you.And as one other poster has stated,it's not a question of ability. We are addressing transgressing God's Law and Command from creation. I'd also reply to such contrary statements to this subject as this, "I am a witness of the Lord using women...", by saying as another poster has also alluded to,that God is above His Law and may make a donkey speak if He will as an exception. Finally,to those guilty ones who are attempting to trump Scripture with experience,or who may be undermining God's creation order(ignorantly or not I do not know),I say to you consider the above,and also these following words:It is very plain that he who modifies the teachings of the Word of God in the smallest particular at the dictation of any man-made opinion has already deserted the Christian ground, and is already, in principle, a heretic. The very essence of heresy is that the modes of thought and tenets originating elsewhere than in the Scriptures of God are given decisive weight when they clash with the teachings ofGod. (BW)Although the scripture doth lay a great blot upon women,and cautioneth man to beware of these fantastical and unstable spirits, yet it limiteth man in his censure: She is only then to be rejected and rebuked, when she doth things unworthy her place and calling. (J. Bunyan)
If anyone doesn't believe that women can teach or preach should then stay FAR away from them! God bless you all,Lisa
WarrierofGod, I would be unfair to you if I withheld my own testimony on the matter. Years ago I was in an evangelical church that strongly opposed female preachers (unless they were missionaries). In time God moved me out, and planted me squarely were I never dreamed I would be: In a church on the other side of the tracks: I was hired as their music director in a rather liberal church. In time, I was invited to preach why? It was because, apparently, my faith, knowledge, and leadership capacity was perceived as authentic. Mind you, I studied hard and prayed hard not just for me but for my church family. Oh how I love them!!! This congregation is definitely gentile territory. Conservative believers would be horrified to see what kind of sins I walk amidst every Sunday even the sin of unbelief. Not only that - I get invited to preach elsewhere - in the most liberal denomination in Canada. They even ordain homosexuals! Yet the congregation keeps asking me back to preach. Why? Because they are starving for food and they have found a way to get some. The caution I set before you, WarrierofGod, has less to do with any church than with yourself. In your concern over matters that trouble your conscience, (and there will be many!) you will be tempted to give priority to the letter of the law to such a degree that the spirit of that law is overshadowed. And then you will fail to live God's calling and purpose for your presence in that church family. Regarding this gender matter, there is a lack of dialogue related to the spirit behind the laws. Not many (on either side of the tracks)look beyond the surface. It's far easier simply to go by rules. Overall, it is always wise to keep Gods highest law in the spotlight: the law of Gods redemptive love for humanity. And as my testimony bears out, that can happen in the context of order and submission to authority even in our apostate churches.Diane
How many MEN here who say a woman should not teach men have listened to a teaching by a woman of God and have learned something? And even helped greatly in their walk?I have. I will listen to Jackie Pullinger's teachings anytime just to name one Holy Ghost filled, Believer who knows the Lord and His ways.Does she exercise authority over me? Not that I can think of.A woman in Christ has the Spirit of God just like a man. There is neither male nor female in Christ. If you get legalistic about this then SI would have to take down all their teachings by women, because I guarantee you that many men have listened to many of the teachings by these servants of the Lord (and been blessed, I might add).Pilgrim
Diane,Just read your post and it was excellent!!This is just one more of those instances where we miss the Spirit of the letter and could short change ourselves and others. The letter by itself always kills. I for one am supremely blessed that SI posts some annointed teachings by Sisters in the Lord and I would not want them to take them down because some did not approve. Your post contained a good teaching in it as well as many other posts by sisters. There may even be those who don't care for sisters posting either.My point is that we all teach, when we communicate but when we communicate we don't necessarily exercise authority over others. I am not concerned whether a teaching is by a man or woman. I listen to it and ask if it is from God.Pilgrim
Thank you for your uplifting words, Pilgrim. I would like to expand on one of your statements:
but when we communicate we don't necessarily exercise authority over others.
This teaching be John MacArthur helped me immensely. Maybe it could help you all: http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/54-17/gods-high-calling-for-women-part-4
Hey there Diane,I missed this post of yours. Got to get to work and will reply later. Great points.Pilgrim