I'm not going to get into the discussion really, there are plenty of others that will do a much better job than I, but i would urge you to really put your scriptures in context. 1 Cor. 3:15 is not talking about people going to hell and being restored/purified, but about the works that we do will be made manifest one day and if they are works of our own they will burn away, but if works towards God they will be rewarded.

_________________
tom bowerman

Pilgrim,

Yes, I believe Satan is a real life spiritual being, seeking whom he may devour, seeking to claim men as his own, but could it be that the stronger man has (or will) tie up the strong man and carry off all his possesions? That Jesus will be the ultimate Victor and reconcile all people to Himself? Could it be that He will leave the 99 and go after the 1 until He finds it, and not stop until He accomplishes what He has set out to do?

Do you believe all men bear God's image? That God loves all men, and desires all to be saved?

Yes I know men reject Christ now, and so do Universalist's, but what about the promise that EVERY knee will bow, and EVERY tongue confess Jesus Christ as Lord?

I am not claiming to be a Universalist.

But wouldn't that be a wonderful thing if it is true?

Do you not long for all men to be saved?

Let's study the scriptures to see if maybe we've missed something!

Quote: """Do you believe all men bear God's image? That God loves all men, and desires all to be saved?"""

Image and Nature are two things different. Image is breathe of Life, no nature.

Nature is God given by birth. Christ birthed in the Believer is From a Father, not a creator.

If Jesus was slain before the foundation of the world, why did He only choose 8 to come through the flood, why not universally save all.

God must put a nature in His own son's, as He did with His only begotten, Jesus Christ and it is His nature, Jesus Christ that is birthed in every son of God. The Father chooses who He will be a Father to, a creator gives life and shows that created being cannot choose the nature of the Father, man can only choose nature by another created being, which was satan, when Adam chose to believe a lie and we all became the son's of satan, birds of a feather flocking together and it takes a God Nature to produce son's of God nature, of whom He is a Father. Universlaists will have to take it up with God, of why they were not saved with all men as they claim. "Who are you O' man who tells God what to do". The potter is the Father of all that are birthed with His nature in them, Jesus Christ, born again in them, are born of the incorruptable Seed of the Father, "THE WORD" John 1. Fit for destruction are all those born/created into another created being by choice, satan. Every knee will bow to Jesus Christ but every knee will not be a son of God.

In Christ: Phillip by our Father giving birthe to His Son in me and making me a son also. God's choice, not mine. A father cannot consult with his offspring until he is born and can then understand his own nature. Satan hides his fatherhood, God reveals His nature in the believer. "Christ in you the hope of Glory" "It is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me" "The life I now live I live by the faith of the Son of God." Col 1:26-28 Gal 2:20 He who lives is not my life and nature, not universalism salvation but Eph 1:4. by birthing from a Father, who is "Our Father".

_________________
Phillip

Hi bro_willy,

Of course it would be wonderful if all men are saved. But, that implies that all men would repent and love Jesus Christ. No one desires that more than the Lord. But, God proved to Adam and Eve that He keeps His promises. Yes?

When they sinned they died immediately, just as God promised. They died spiritually and it would only be a matter of time before they died physically.

Every knee will bow some day. That is certainly a promise that will come to pass. Some will bow to Him and do it willingly just as they willingly follow the Lord now.

Others will refuse to bow to Him just as they do now, however they will be unable to resist bowing to Him and acknowledging He is truly Lord, someday. Some will bow hoping it is not too late to be saved.

Pilgrim

bro_willy,

I missed something. God does not love all men. That is a false gospel as far as I can tell. God hates sinners and His wrath abides on them unless they run to His Son, Jesus Christ.

Psa 7:11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.

He does not hate them as creatures or living beings but as sinners. As men that have aligned themselves with Satan and against His Son, Jesus Christ. If God love the sinner then there is no need for a mediator and there should be peace between men and God. But we both know that is not correct.

Can John 3:36 be any clearer to you? If you have the Son, you have Life, if you don't have the Son you don't have life and God's wrath will be on you. Does this say that God loves sinners? God loves those who have put their trust in Jesus but desires that all men will be saved. That does mean they will be, though.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

I think if you would re-study and ask the Holy Spirit to help you to understand what Jesus came to save us from, that you would see.

I will be praying for you but I think there is ample information on the Web for you to look at and ultimately what you believe will come down to your own heart before the Lord.

God bless,
Pilgrim

Bless you too, bro.

You may want to go over these scriptures.

Does God hate anyone? The answer is yes.

•Psalm 5:5, "The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; THOU DOST HATE ALL WHO DO INIQUITY,"

•Psalm 11:5, "The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and the one who loves violence HIS SOUL HATES"

•Lev. 20:23, "Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I shall drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I HAVE ABHORRED THEM."

•Prov. 6:16-19, "There are six things which THE LORD HATES, yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: 17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil, 19 A false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers."

•Hosea 9:15, "All their evil is at Gilgal; indeed, I CAME TO HATE THEM THERE! Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of My house! I will love them no more; All their princes are rebels."

Universalists will say that God loves everyone, but the Bible would disagree and God's nature and character does, too. He only loves those who put their faith in His Son.

This is how serious sin is and how much God hates it.

"Sin is not to be ignored, nor minimised. It is the most patent fact in life, the darkest experience in the history of the race. It is the root of all the world's tragedies. It is that which makes "conscience a thousand swords," "the torture of an inward hell," "the worm that doth begnaw the soul." (James M. Campbell. The Heart of Gospel: A Popular Exposition of the Atonement. Fleming H. Revell Co. 1907. pg 47.)

God is very serious about sin and will not allow that which is unholy, perverted, evil and unregenerate to fellowship with Him and His children for eternity.

Bro_Willy,

The scriptures are pretty clear on this and I think that you really have to do harm to God's character and to twist the scriptures into showing ultimate reconciliation.


James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.


Respectfully,
Pilgrim

Quote: """I do disagree with you for it was because God so loved the world that He sent His Son!"""

There is a stipulation for this Love sent into the world.

He that believeth on Him is not condemned, but he that believeth not is condemned already.

This is the condemnation; we don't believe. The light came into the world and men loved darkness rather than light. because all our deeds are evil.

They don't want to come to the light because their evil will be reproved. But He that doeth the truth comes to the light and that all his deeds are wrought in God.

Which no man can do unless God brings him to the light that we might believe.

They that are in darkness are not compatable with those that are in The Light, How could they be saved? God is true and He only gives rebirth to those He brings to the Light for none would come of their own accord, and none will be lost that are given to Jesus Christ who is the Light. He came to His own and they received Him not and crucified Him on a Cross.

In Christ: Phillip

_________________
Phillip