| Poster | Thread | MaryJane
Member
Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057
| | Re: "...you might be a legalist" | | Greetings Pilgrim
I have read through your post here. I will begin my reply by being honest I do not really know Jeff Foxworthy or his brand of humor so some of this post may be lost on me. I was not at all sure if you were trying to be funny or not????
So any way I felt after reading them that I would go to the Lord in prayer and then just see what He laid on my heart to share with you all here...Some of these points I did not feel led by the Lord to respond to, others did touch my heart and I felt compelled to share with you as if you were being serious. So here is what the Lord has shown me:
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you wrote:If you think the 10 commandments are still authoritative for Christians today...then you might be a legalist.
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My reply:
I am not sure what you mean by "authoritative" but I feel this way... God gave us HIS son Jesus and the command to love one another. Seems like if I love another then the ten commandments pretty much take care of themselves. After all I would not kill,lie to, steal from, or intentionally hurt someone I love...
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You wrote:If you think that abstinence is a virtue...then you might be a legalist
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my reply:
I am not sure if abstinence is a "virture" or not would have to really look up that word and understand its meaning more clearly. But I do believe God cares very much about remaining pure and free from sexual immorality. He spoke to it often and so did the disciples so I am pretty sure it matters.
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You wrote:If you think that a man can keep God's principles and precepts...then you might be a legalist.
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my reply:
While I do not believe man can "keep" Gods principles or precepts alone I absolutely believe we can in CHRIST JESUS!After all Jesus did say "If you love Me you will obey ME"
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you wrote:If you've ever tried to impose your perspective of modesty on another...then you might be a legalist.
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my reply:
I do believe each one knows that there is a standard and that standard is Gods. If we are being honest a women know when she is dressing in such a way to entice a mans attention...Having said that I believe that if you wear an article of clothing that causes a brother/sister to stumble in lust then you are in sin. Again this is an issue that God speaks to so He does care about modesty...don't you think we should too??
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you wrote:If you men have ever felt condemned for having taken a second look at a beautiful woman (in a short skirt)...then you might be a legalist.
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my reply:
I guess my response to this is why would you be taking another look at the woman in the short skirt? What is the motivation of your heart for doing so??? After all God looks at the motivation of the heart, He says so. Besides if a brother in Christ does and feels conviction about it why would that make him a legalist?? After all doesn't the Holy Spirit gives us conviction so that we might repent of sin and walk closer with the Lord?
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you wrote:If you've ever looked down upon another for their living arrangements...then you might be a legalist.
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my reply:
while I do not look down on another for their living arrangements I do and will call them on it if they claim the name of Jesus and are in sin. After all its not my standard, its Gods and He has some very specific things to say about this topic.
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You wrote:If you think that people who smoke tobacco are disgusting and sinful...then you might be a legalist.
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my reply:
I do not think people who smoke tabacco are disgusting but I do believe they are doing something that will eventually cause them great harm. My dad died of lung cancer and because of his tabacco use he was taken away at a relatively younger age. I don't know if that is sin or not but I do not think it was what God would have wanted for him.
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you wrote:If some of these have hit you right where it hurts...then you might be a legalist..
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my reply:
While I do not want to debate, and I am not upset, or angry, I did feel led to share what the Lord placed on my heart as others have done :)
Honestly God does speak to many of these things and if sharing them with others makes me a legalist in the eyes of man well that is ok. Just like I would hope another would share Gods truth with me in love I seek to do also. In some of these points I have no issue with being called a legalists when I know from Gods own Words that I, by His strength am walking in His standard...My faith and trust is in HIM.
Still not really sure the point of the thread but perhaps you will come back and share what the motivation of your heart was when you posted? What was God laying upon your heart with this topic and thread??
God Bless
mary
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|  2012/1/6 12:56 | Profile | roadsign
Member
Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777
| | Re: | | Quote:
And why are people getting offended over Pilgrim's thread? Could some legalistic toes be stepped on?
Remember that definition I posted, Blaine, The legalist is the one to the right of you. There are no professing legalists on this forum! Its not possible.
Quote:
What I find scary in this forum is some who are legalistic to the max.
Definitely the ones on your f-a-r right!
_________________
Diane
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| | 2012/1/6 13:28 | Profile |
| | Re: | | --martyr-- Quote:
What I find scary in this forum is some who are legalistic to the max. They imply in their post that one is saved through the keeping of the law. And what surprises me is the they go unchallenged in this forum.
So, if I understand you correctly, people that have a different viewpoint of the scriptures are not welcome to this forum correct?
Salvation through works or salvation by grace is a choice, we can only discuss our views with scriptural facts and learn.
Resorting to name calling and or stereotyping ie ( legalist, judiazers,Pharisees etc..) is offensive and outright childish. |
| | 2012/1/6 13:33 | |
| | Re: | |
What's scaring me 'for' folks here is the lack of Biblicists.
When Jesus is called The Word of GOD and we say that our Bibles are "Divinely Inspired" and know that one of "the books opened" at our judgment will be That Book and Jesus warns that if any are lukewarm [about His/The Word], they'll be vomited out of His Mouth - yet so many write their own words and those sentiments that they write cannot be found in the New Testament, that is scarey to me for people.
We have so many that love their own words over His.
The New Testament is only about a half-inch sized book, and yet we don't 'know' it.
That to me is frightening.
I've been here long enough to know the Biblicists and those who aren't and I just don't take the nonBiblicist's posts seriously so I don't get frightened for them anymore and 'react', but just pray.
This verse means something that some have not grasped as yet - Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, IF [G1437] a man love Me, he will keep [a watch, guard] My words: and My Father will love him, and We will come unto him, and make Our abode with him.
We only love "Jesus" as much as we love, keep, watch, guard, be jealous over The Word of GOD.
Is His New Testament too much for us to read and know and speak from and not our own ideas?
There's a famine in the land.
"If a man love Me ...."
Is that legalism as well?
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| | 2012/1/6 14:05 | | pilgrim777
Member
Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211
| | Re: | | Quote:
Greetings Pilgrim
I have read through your post here. I will begin my reply by being honest I do not really know Jeff Foxworthy or his brand of humor so some of this post may be lost on me. I was not at all sure if you were trying to be funny or not????
So any way I felt after reading them that I would go to the Lord in prayer and then just see what He laid on my heart to share with you all here...Some of these points I did not feel led by the Lord to respond to, others did touch my heart and I felt compelled to share with you as if you were being serious. So here is what the Lord has shown me:
Hi MaryJane,
Yes, I was being quite serious. There is no connection with Jeff Foxworthy except in style of prose. Certainly not in content. He would simply state that "you might be a redneck if..." and then fill in the blanks. So that is as far as it goes. Just style of delivering the message not content. So, let's continue. I did not write these but I thought they were worthy of thinking about since they made me think, too.
Quote:
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you wrote:If you think the 10 commandments are still authoritative for Christians today...then you might be a legalist.
__________
My reply:
I am not sure what you mean by "authoritative" but I feel this way... God gave us HIS son Jesus and the command to love one another. Seems like if I love another then the ten commandments pretty much take care of themselves. After all I would not kill,lie to, steal from, or intentionally hurt someone I love...
I was thinking about this one, too and came to the conclusion that what is supremely authoritative to Christians is God's Spirit. Christ in us the hope of glory. Many lift the Bible (the letter) above the Spirit of God (bibliolatry). But Jesus told us that the Letter kills and it is the Spirit that gives life. Of course the Spirit and the Letter will agree, but the Letter by itself will kill (legalism). I think you are right on regarding this one. If we love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength and our neighbor as ourself thenwe will not only obey the 10 commandments but go even further (Spirit of the letter) and not covet, commit adultery and transgress the other commandments in our heart. So, I think you got that one.
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Quote:
You wrote:If you think that abstinence is a virtue...then you might be a legalist
___________________
my reply:
I am not sure if abstinence is a "virtue" or not would have to really look up that word and understand its meaning more clearly. But I do believe God cares very much about remaining pure and free from sexual immorality. He spoke to it often and so did the disciples so I am pretty sure it matters.
This was a little harder for me and I had to think about it a lot. He did not say whether he was talking about abstinence in marriage or outside of it. And then I realized that he may not be talking about sexual relations but rather food, since the Bible talks about the Kingdom of God not being "meat nor drink" but righteousness, peace and joy. So, I had to consider everything.
Besides that, the Bible does talk about "virtue" and even in the context of "temperance". 2 Peter 1:5-6.
So, I considered my own actions through the years and actions of others and I have seen people who thought they were virtuous just because they were able to go without certain things for long periods of time and thought that others should do the same. In this respect then, I think it would be legalism to tell others that they have to abstain from this and that if they want to be spiritual.
Of course all of our spirituality comes from abiding in Christ and not from any formulas, creeds or rules that we set for ourselves.
To be fair, I am still thinking about this one. I believe the author wrote this to make us think, not to replace the Bible or the Spirit of God. Let's look at your next comment.
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Quote:
You wrote:If you think that a man can keep God's principles and precepts...then you might be a legalist.
___________
my reply:
While I do not believe man can "keep" Gods principles or precepts alone I absolutely believe we can in CHRIST JESUS!After all Jesus did say "If you love Me you will obey ME"
So, since we are not always in Christ Jesus (walking in the Spirit) then it would be legalistic to tell people that we always keep God's principles and precepts, right? And make people think that they have to be like you. This is what the Pharisees did. They talked the talk but did not walk it and Jesus said, "Do what they say but not as they do".
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Quote:
you wrote:If you've ever tried to impose your perspective of modesty on another...then you might be a legalist.
___________
my reply:
I do believe each one knows that there is a standard and that standard is Gods. If we are being honest a women know when she is dressing in such a way to entice a mans attention...Having said that I believe that if you wear an article of clothing that causes a brother/sister to stumble in lust then you are in sin. Again this is an issue that God speaks to so He does care about modesty...don't you think we should too??
As I thought about this, I realized that the operative word in this statement was "impose". Impose is a rather strong word that connotates "forcing someone to accept something".
Christendom has taken the Bible and made a religion out of it and we know that Christianity is not religion. Christianity is Christ and Christ is Christianity. However, Christianity has taken the Bible and created an ethos or morality out of the letter and many have missed the living, dynamic spirit of Christ.
I like what Jacques Ellul says:
"One of the essential rules of the Christian life is never to ask a non-Christian to conduct himself like a Christian. If grace really renews a person; if the Christian life is already evidence of the life of someone who is in Christ; if obedience to the Christian ethic is the loving response of a recipient of grace to Him who has shown His love by bestowing grace, then how can one ask a man who has not received, or who did not know that he was under grace, to act as though . . . as though his person were renewed, as though he had experienced grace bestowed upon him, as though he knew that he was the object of God's love? The obligation placed upon him is nothing but restraint. The morality to which he submits can only be based upon the fear of punishment, and God becomes then the great condemner. That is what regularly happens in so-called Christian societies." (Jacques Ellul - To Will and To Do. Pilgrim Press. 1969. pg. 104)
We have to be careful to always walk in grace and remember the grace that Jesus Christ has shown us. Jesus does not impose on us. Jesus does not bring change to us by "imposition" and we certainly don't want others to change just because we imposed something on them, right? We want people to know the love of God as demonstrated in His Son. To have a relationship with Christ is to know LIFE.
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Quote:
you wrote:If you men have ever felt condemned for having taken a second look at a beautiful woman (in a short skirt)...then you might be a legalist.
___________
my reply:
I guess my response to this is why would you be taking another look at the woman in the short skirt? What is the motivation of your heart for doing so??? After all God looks at the motivation of the heart, He says so. Besides if a brother in Christ does and feels conviction about it why would that make him a legalist?? After all doesn't the Holy Spirit gives us conviction so that we might repent of sin and walk closer with the Lord?
Boy, I could sure use some help with this one. I don't know what he is getting at. Is it the word "condemned" instead of "convicted"? Does that mean if we see a brother taking a second look that we can judge what took place in his heart? Even you just said "what is the motivation of your heart for doing so"?
Is he trying to say that if we are being condemnded by our own reliance on "performance" that it could be legalism? I don't know who the author of this is or I would email him to ask him what he was specificaly thinking of. This article is all over the net. For now, I can only think my own thoughts and talk it over with others. I know one thing, I should not judge because if a man did that who is to say that he did not repent in a split-second, too. If we stop walking in love and extending grace to each one like Jesus does, then we will be a church of Pharisees always watching each others behaviour and actions.
I did find this brother's treatise on Legalism as I was looking for the author of this article and found his views quite helpful.
http://www.onenesspentecostal.com/legalism2.htm
But, don't you think if you are walking close to the Lord in His grace and love that His Spirit will tell you if you are being legalistic? Because Legalism is a Relationship killer, right? So, I have confidence in God's Spirit that He knows how to keep us in right relationship with Him and others.
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Quote:
you wrote:If you've ever looked down upon another for their living arrangements...then you might be a legalist.
__________
my reply:
while I do not look down on another for their living arrangements I do and will call them on it if they claim the name of Jesus and are in sin. After all its not my standard, its Gods and He has some very specific things to say about this topic..
I am glad the Lord does neither look down upon others or call them on it. He came to give us Life. His Life will lead us away from what is not good. Please remember all the sinners that Jesus engaged. I believe the only people that He "called on their sin" were those who thought they were well and had no need for a physician.
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Quote:
You wrote:If you think that people who smoke tobacco are disgusting and sinful...then you might be a legalist.
__________
my reply:
I do not think people who smoke tabacco are disgusting but I do believe they are doing something that will eventually cause them great harm. My dad died of lung cancer and because of his tabacco use he was taken away at a relatively younger age. I don't know if that is sin or not but I do not think it was what God would have wanted for him. .
I agree that it will do them harm. And so will a lot of things we all do each day.
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Quote:
you wrote:If some of these have hit you right where it hurts...then you might be a legalist..
_________
my reply:
While I do not want to debate, and I am not upset, or angry, I did feel led to share what the Lord placed on my heart as others have done :)
Honestly God does speak to many of these things and if sharing them with others makes me a legalist in the eyes of man well that is ok. Just like I would hope another would share Gods truth with me in love I seek to do also. In some of these points I have no issue with being called a legalists when I know from Gods own Words that I, by His strength am walking in His standard...My faith and trust is in HIM.
Still not really sure the point of the thread but perhaps you will come back and share what the motivation of your heart was when you posted? What was God laying upon your heart with this topic and thread??
God Bless
mary
Thanks for the conversation Mary. The point of the thread is the same as most threads and that is simply to converse and talk some of these things over. There is no reason to debate and this thread is not for that. I am stumpled myself on some of the statements while others I can understand quite clearly. I would love to see others try to understand what the brother or sister is trying to say when they wrote this. But, I think his/her point is made quite well, overall. That legalism alienates from the life of God and because it alienates from God it will alienate us from others.
Jesus on the other hand was out and about everyday mixing in with the sinners as well as the hypocrites. He was trying to bring them all to Him, to Life. Not by rules and regulations or telling people off, but by bring them to Himself.
On one hand they got angry with Him because He would not dance when they played their songs or He would not mourn when they played their dirge. To the Legalist Jesus is never enough.
John 5:39
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
John 5:40
And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
Pilgrim
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| | 2012/1/6 14:08 | Profile |
| | Re: The Ephah | | There are different views how one may understand and apply scriptures in this forum and they are welcome. But when they advocate doctrines that deny the person and work of Jesus Christ they must be challenged.
Your post advocate law keeping for salvation. To say this is legalism and you are a legalist is not name calling but a fact.
Let me get to the heart of the matter. Ephah are you a Christian? Are you a believer in Jesus Christ? Have you ever called upon the Lord Jesus for salvation? Your issue is not with those of us who differ with you. Your issue will be with God to whom you must give account.
Your law keeping will not save you. Only faith in Christ Jesus will save you. If you in humility will ask for help in knowing Jesus any person will be glad to point you to the cross. There are any number of sermons or books that are available in this forum that will explain how one comes to Jesus for svalvation.
Look. I am talking man to man with you. Heart to heart. You may want to argue. But I am telling you God will require an answer for your sins. Either you wi have kept the law perfectly or believe in one who has. And Ephah I am safe in saying you have not kept the law perfectly. Because the scriptures tells us no one has kept the law perfectly save one, Jesus. And we are saved by faith in Jesus.
Ephah if you have the humility please read John. Ask God to shoe you who Jesus is. Ask God to save you. You may argue with us on the forum. But come the day of judgement you will not win the argument with God when he says you ate guilty of your sins and bell awaits you.
I urge you call out to him who went to the cross and died for your sins. Be saved by believing on Jesus Christ for salvation.
Blaine Scogin |
| | 2012/1/6 14:13 | | roadsign
Member
Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777
| | Re: | |
There should have been something here about speck-removers!
Really, I think if this guy was successful he would have had us all chuckling while secretly feeling a twinge of conviction. And wed have fun and love each other with a heaping dose of mercy!
God, please send us some real humor!
Diane
_________________
Diane
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| | 2012/1/6 14:28 | Profile | pilgrim777
Member
Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211
| | Re: | | Folks,
This is a discussion forum. Can we not treat one another as Christ treats us, with all of our warts, errors, misconceptions and waywardness?
Let's not resort to name calling. Just present your view in an intelligent and respectful way.
If more mercy and grace were shown these discussions would be more enjoyable and we could probably make more progress.
Believe the best about each other.
Kindly,
Pilgrim |
| | 2012/1/6 14:31 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Quote:
But when they advocate doctrines that deny the person and work of Jesus Christ they must be challenged.
This is you opinion brother! your faith lies in Salvation by grace, so does millions of other Christians.
How about the other millions of Christians that think otherwise?
Nobody is forcing anyone to be obedient to the will of the father. That's a choice we have to make.
Matthew 19:17 --if you want to receive eternal life, keep the commandments."
My only question to you is, did our Savior ask us to keep the commandments or not? A simple Yes or No will work.
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| | 2012/1/6 14:39 | | Miccah
Member
Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin
| | Re: | | theEphah,
Why will you not answer my question...
Do you keep the commandments?
_________________
Christiaan
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| | 2012/1/6 14:46 | Profile |
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