SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Christian Group arrested while spreading Christmas cheer at Calgary City Hall

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 )
PosterThread









 Re: Let's not miss what is going on here

Should this group have gotten a permit? Yes. Should they have complied with city ordinances regarding peaceful assemblies? Yes. Should they have held their demontration without the required permit? No. Should they have complied with authorities to leave city hall? Yes. Should they be held accountable for their actions in disobeying city ordinances? Yes. Should they be in submission to Romans 13:1-7? Yes.

That being said let us not miss the dynamic that a hostility, dare I say hatred of Jesus Christ is being sown in Canadian and the United States. Even in legal compliance to speak the name of Jesus Christ will land one in prison and perhaps death.

But then it can never happen here? Right? After we are Canada and the United States? We would never think of imprisoning Christians for their faith in Jesus? It just not going to happen. I mean it will never, ever happen in our two great countries. We would NEVER do what N. Korea and Eritrea are doing to Christians. We will never persecute Christians. Right???????

Blaine Scogin

 2011/12/28 12:19









 "Forest Fire" Greg

(how you like that moniker now?)

Quote:
Please know that I was not questioning your faith, I just felt a need for clarification of you statement about being a Jew who follows Jesus.



of course i knew that, and its my joy to testify (further clarify) to you and any who read this. i hope you now understand why i MUST make that part and parcel of my testimony, i was raised up calling Him, Elochim, or Adonai, God, in Hebrew, and there are so few of my kinsmen, who have apprehended that Messiah has come, that just by the dint that, i am, might that Reality serve to let them know its okay. you might ask Greg, "what do you mean 'it's okay'?

well Greg, the sad truth is Jews are very scared of "christians", i lower cased that, because they're scared of over 1700 years , sons of the darkness, who called themselves, 'christians' engaged in the worst sort of murder, and rape against the Jews, that there is an almost spiritual DNA, thats seeped into the mind and soul of any righteous Jew, which is this, "if i come to love Messiah, Who's Name is Jesus, then i've turned my back on Yahweh", and i'm no longer a Jew, or 'tzadik'" (saint), [or some call Him HaShem (The Name) ].......and any tzadik, would rather die, than do what they percieve as spurning God, which is to love Jesus. They would rather die, because its the sons of darkness masqaudering as the sons of Light, and using the Name, Christ, Messiah, as a cover for their murderous wickedness...the devil is cunning, but i will proclaim loud and clear, i am a Jew who follows Jesus, so that by the Grace and Mercy of God, i might save a few.

pray my witness and lifestyle do not bring reproach on Messiah Jesus.

God bless the Church in Flatbush, and dont beat yourself up, Jesus aint gonna let you go.....not that easy anyway. love, neil

am i being clear in my writing?

 2011/12/28 12:29
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3421
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: "Forest Fire" Greg

Quote:
HezWelling wrote:
well Greg, the sad truth is Jews are very scared of "christians", i lower cased that, because they're scared of over 1700 years , sons of the darkness, who called themselves, 'christians' engaged in the worst sort of murder, and rape against the Jews,


Reading this, I am reminded of listening to Art Katz describe how his Jewish mother would say, “goyim” and spit at the same time!! It was an eye-opening (several) sermons listening to him describe the way Jews view christians and it is sad; but one day, in Jesus name, we will be united in Christ!!!

God bless you,
Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2011/12/28 19:01Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re:

Quote:
"We can criticize these fellow believers all day and accuse them of being in the flesh in their methods. But the question remains, what are we doing to get the gospel out to people headed for hell?"



Yes, God uses Jesus Marchers as much as he uses people in any branch of Christianity. We can’t accuse everyone of fleshly motives. But neither can we “pull that card” as a means of sidestepping a serious concern. If I recall, it was Art Katz who criticized the preponderance of fleshliness in our modern methods of evangelism, which has defiled the name of the Lord in the eyes of the unsaved. Katz uses the word “stench” or something like it. I believe Katz is perceptive in this regard. And I don’t think any of us are in the wrong because we are drawing attention to some red flags we see. In this regard, I concur with this earlier response:


Quote:
I personally am not trying to highlight this particular group, but rather discussing, tweaking, sharping iron with iron and learning from all of you how we should conduct ourselves.



I apply the “sharpener” to Blaine’s comment here:

Quote:
That being said let us not miss the dynamic that a hostility, dare I say hatred of Jesus Christ is being sown in Canadian and the United States.



This is surely evident! Yet we would not deny that a Christian's type of faith is going to determine how he or she responds to the threatening clouds. One type of Christian will respond with faith; the other with fear. The difference is huge! This is the fork in the road - dividing authentic faith in Christ from pseudo-faith. The later have a fleshly faith – reliance on man: self, the government, and methods. Because these Christians are fear driven, they will react to threats against the gospel in one of two typical ways: by “fight” or by “flight”. I believe that this explains why we see in the church evidence of rising militancy (fighters) and also of rising denial (flight-ers). Both reactions will intensify as opposition increases. Both "sides", though equally fear driven, will condemn the other. Those who are more combative in nature (often the religious right) will condemn those who are more "tolerant"-seeking (often the religious left) ... and vice versa. Regardless, both sides will cause the image of Christ to be distorted regardless of evangelistic methods - because the messengers are not faith-driven. Actually, any fear-driven kind of reaction, in the face of rising opposition, will ultimately resist authentic faith.

That's the way I see it.


Persecution will test the authenticity of our faith – even as it confronts all our fears and false reliances. Persecution has a place in God's kingdom purposes. We need not be driven by fear of it!

Diane



_________________
Diane

 2011/12/28 19:32Profile









 Re: Diane

I cannot tell from by your previous post if we agree or looking at this issue from two different sides. I do agree with your observations regarding persecutions and how we respond in faith.

But Diane I woukd like to ask some questions. And please understand I am not debating here. But these are questions every saint in this hemisphere will have to answer. What will you fo when the Canadian government declares the worship of Jesus illegal? What will you do when the Canadian government declares the Bible illegal? What eill you do when the Canadian government declares evangelism illegal? What will you do when the Canadian government says it is supreme and it is to be worshipped? Forgive me. This is not to pick on Canada. Because what I am describing to you is unfolding in the United States.

I am assuming the Canadian constitution like the American one guarantees freedom of religion. Sister this is a myth. What once was freedom of religion is now being coopted. There is an antichrist spirit that is making the state god. The questions I have posted above will have to weigh on each saints mind. Will they worship Caesar or Christ. That is the question.

Blaine Scogin

 2011/12/28 20:51
Yeshuasboy
Member



Joined: 2006/6/10
Posts: 668
Northern Rockies, BC, Canada

 Re:

I've seen many people say in their lives that they will do this or that when the time comes - then, when it comes, they flop, they fail to do the very things that they said they would.
What's that old proverb - "Be careful if you think you're standing firm lest you fall"?
I've also seen the very people who talk the least about what they do usually do the most - kinda like "new money" or "old money" folk - the new brag about what they have, and what they buy, and what they do for others; the old... Well, they're pretty much "ordinary" folk.
Blaine, you speak about Canada's government - I say, who cares about what they may do, or may not do - I can't control that. If God makes allowance for the government to ban Christianity from public places, so be it, I'm not gonna fret about it.
If I end up losing everything for the sake of Christ, and I'm a christian - a christian will rejoice. Their mind is set on heavenly things, not earthly, being strangers and pilgrims, children of Abraham, and children of Christ.
But, this whole 'what will you do when "these things" happen?', and then to answer, "I will do this and that", to me, is just plain glorifying in my own righteousness, being presumptuous, I sense a sort of spiritual pride in it. If anything, only God can make me stand in any evil day, and how He enables me to stand is up to Him - without Him I can do nothing now, nor in the time to come.
I'd like to say though for the record, that I'm not against this group in Calgary - God may be using them, or not, I don't know; but I think He is allowing these things that they're doin to happen.
I feel the Lord just telling me - "Just never mind them; follow Me."
Anyway, no offense to no-one, but I've said enough myself on this issue, and I'm bowing out of this topic now. See you all in another thread, Lord willing.
To Him be the glory, and the honour, forever and ever, Amen.


_________________
Richie

 2011/12/29 0:12Profile
Yeshuasboy
Member



Joined: 2006/6/10
Posts: 668
Northern Rockies, BC, Canada

 Re:

To just add quickly - if one is going to begin worrying about what will happen when these things begin to take place, I would suggest grabbing your Strong's concordance and looking up the word "worry" and doing a study on it - especially what the Lord Himself spoke using the word "worry" - you will find it to be rooted in unbelief.
And be careful to read about what the spies said that brought back a false report to the people after spying out the land of promise. We must be of a different spirit - like Joshua, like Caleb; but really like new creatures in Christ.


_________________
Richie

 2011/12/29 0:34Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re:

Quote:
What will you fo when the Canadian government declares the worship of Jesus illegal? What will you do when the Canadian government declares the Bible illegal? What eill you do when the Canadian government declares evangelism illegal?


Blaine, I believe that you and I really do agree, but we come at our thoughts from different perspectives. I suppose that’s what keeps us dialoguing.

Here’s my response: Opposition to our Christianity is not merely a future issue coming through some upcoming anti-Christian law. It comes in other ways – not just legislation. Values get embedded into people’s consciences and they then function as laws. These laws are formed, not by the state, but by social practice, by our education values, by peers, by media, and so forth. They may be implicit, unspoken, and even unconscious. We come to know the power of these laws when we violate them. In many social contexts we can be sure that raising the subject of “God” is going to be prohibitive – and anyone who tries is likely to experience some sense of shaming or shunning – even if very subtle. The collective conscience functions as a powerful law. Most people simply do not violate this "law", especially if their own consciences operate according to the law of social conformity.

So then – the court of law which believers must come to recognize is not the government, but the conscience – first of all, their own conscience.


Quote:
What will you do when the Canadian government says it is supreme and it is to be worshipped?


I am almost your age Blaine, and so I’m quite sure you are aware of this law operating for years – and just as powerfully as in Daniel’s day. Worship is related to one’s object of trust. All who trust the state for their security, worship the state. You and I might not see people bowing down to the ground in front of the Town Hall, but you will see expressions of this reliance in other ways. Most have come to trust our court system, insurance companies, banks, hospitals, state schools, - all which are under heavy state jurisdiction. Anger against the state for failing to defend the people's interests in these domains might be an indication of an idolatrous trust in the state.

The actual moral problem is not these institutions, but people’s reliance on them. If Christians (I use that term loosely) trust the state for their well being, then they will also expect the state to protect their religious interests (whatever version that is). The real area of concern then is not the state, but the consciences of the people. And really, this is where the state gains its power. Christians give the state power by depending on it for religious freedoms – along with the many other forms of security that it provides (or claims to).


Quote:
I am assuming the Canadian constitution like the American one guarantees freedom of religion. Sister this is a myth. What once was freedom of religion is now being coopted.


As I noted before, the freedoms that the state can give is not the same as the freedoms Christ gives. The state cannot give freedom in Christ. It can only give temporal freedoms – but is that really what we want most?

Quote:
There is an antichrist spirit that is making the state god.


An antichrist is anything that functions in place of Christ. (anti= in place of) That is what the state has done for a long time. This is nothing new. The state can save and protect the people. It can provide a sense if identity, citizenship, meaning and belonging. Those are all legitimate and powerfully driving needs. But the state can only offer an illusion. Only Christ can fulfill the needs legitimately through salvation into the kingdom of God.


Quote:
The questions I have posted above will have to weigh on each saints mind. Will they worship Caesar or Christ. That is the question.


Yes this is the key question. However, demanding that the state authorities ensure religious freedoms may actually be symptomatic of state-reliance. And the state, not Christ is the actual object of worship.

One more thought: State authorities must aim to keep civil peace. From their perspective, by conceding to radical Christians, they risk reprisals from a host of other interest groups - the radical Muslims, the Gay Pride camp, the atheists, etc. Why would Christians want to fuel these causes by insisting on special rights for themselves. It will simply work against them in the long run, and will do nothing for the cause of Christ. Remember, the issue is the conscience of each person we encounter each day – beginning with our own.


Diane




_________________
Diane

 2011/12/29 7:44Profile









 Re: Diane

Good points. I would say I agree. Maybe its time we put this issue to rest and move on to other things. Peace and blessings be on you Diane.

Bkaine

 2011/12/29 8:54
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re:

Quote:
Maybe its time we put this issue to rest and move on to other things.



Maybe so. It’s a topic that will no doubt surface elsewhere. It’s barely begun.

Blessings,
Diane


_________________
Diane

 2011/12/29 9:00Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy