Very honest reply looserchapel. The Scriptures below speak to all of us in........brother Frank

Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Php 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

2Ti 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

2Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

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Sreeram

"But if we humble ourselves and admit our sin and defeats with brutal honesty, our advancements will be rapid. Because God gives grace to such people."

Amen!

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Jeremiah Dusenberry

PaulWest wrote:

"Well, I believe the contrast was between Paul's spirituality and maturity and the Corinthian church's carnality and immaturity. Spiritually speaking, Paul was light years ahead of them in his understanding and yieldedness to Christ through the Spirit."


Yes this is true. For Paul writes...


Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors--not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.

Rom 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.


PaulWest wrote:

"In light of this, overcoming complaining is fundamental. Our emotions are never hijacked when God sanctifies us. Instead, He teaches us how to regulate them through the renewing of our mind, through the putting to death of the flesh and the bridling of the tongue."


Is not the testimony of Job our example?

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Jeff Marshalek

We have this testimony of Paul...

Phl 3:1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. For me to write the same things to you [is] not tedious, but for you [it is] safe.

Phl 3:2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the mutilation!

Phl 3:3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, [fn] rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh,

Phl 3:4 though I also might have confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so:

Phl 3:5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, [of] the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee;

Phl 3:6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.


Paul was once part of the "mutalation." He was found blameless according to the law. The righteousness that he possesed at that time in his life was according to the flesh. But then God revealed to him a better promise that was not dependent upon the carnal mind.


Phl 3:8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ

Phl 3:9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which [is] from the law, but that which [is] through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;


The knowledge of Christ enabled Paul to recognize the difference between righteousness gained through the flesh and the righeousness gained through the Spirit. Man's religion is mutilation. But the way of Christ is much different...listen to His promise....



Mat 11:28 "Come to Me, all [you] who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Mat 11:29 "Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.

Mat 11:30 "For My yoke [is] easy and My burden is light."


Have you found that the "mortification of the flesh" is a heavy burden? If you follow the commands of the Holy Spirit you will recognize the way of mutilation.

"For My yoke [is] easy and My burden is light."

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Jeff Marshalek

Poonen writes,

"When the godly apostle Paul was in danger of becoming proud, God took Paul also through suffering. He gave him a thorn in the flesh, which was a messenger of Satan (2 Cor.12:7). Job had a messenger of Satan too. But Paul knew why he got it. Job didn’t know."



This point is not according to Scripture. Whether it is Paul or Job, neither man understood the condition of his heart as God sees it. Each man pleaded with God for understanding.

Job could not recognize that over time, he had become self righteous. Likewise, Paul did not recognize that spiritual pride was welling up in him. And over the course of time both Job and Paul suffered under the work of Satan.

Paul testifies to precept...



2Cr 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure.

2Cr 12:8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me.

2Cr 12:9 And He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness." Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.


Paul pleaded with God three times, and only after the third time did our Lord reveal to him what was not right in his heart. Only after the Lord revealed His chastening of Paul could Paul find contentment in what the Lord was working in his life.


Sometimes we are quick to judge the actions of our brothers and sisters based on what the Scripture teaches on certain topics. We know, because of Scripture, that we are called to rejoice no matter what circumstances we find ourselves in. Yet, if God has not yet revealed the purpose of this chastening in our own individual lives, how can we know of the peace and righteousness that God works into those who are His sons and daughters. One cannot expect this fruit if he or she climbs over the fence. Only those who go in and out the gate come to know this peace and righteousness. Everything else is based on our own carnal minds, and it is all vanity.


Mat 5:4 Blessed [are] those who mourn, For they shall be comforted.

Mourning comes first, then comfort.

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Jeff Marshalek

"Mat 5:4 Blessed [are] those who mourn, For they shall be comforted.

Mourning comes first, then comfort."



This precept is illustrated in Psalm 30...


Psa 30:1 A Psalm. A Song at the dedication of the house of David. I will extol You, O LORD, for You have lifted me up, And have not let my foes rejoice over me.

Psa 30:2 O LORD my God, I cried out to You, And You healed me.

Psa 30:3 O LORD, You brought my soul up from the grave; You have kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit. [fn]

Psa 30:4 Sing praise to the LORD, you saints of His, And give thanks at the remembrance of His holy name. [fn]

Psa 30:5 For His anger [is but for] a moment, His favor [is for] life; Weeping may endure for a night, But joy [comes] in the morning.

Psa 30:6 Now in my prosperity I said, "I shall never be moved."

Psa 30:7 LORD, by Your favor You have made my mountain stand strong; You hid Your face, [and] I was troubled.

Psa 30:8 I cried out to You, O LORD; And to the LORD I made supplication:

Psa 30:9 "What profit [is there] in my blood, When I go down to the pit? Will the dust praise You? Will it declare Your truth?

Psa 30:10 Hear, O LORD, and have mercy on me; LORD, be my helper!"

Psa 30:11 You have turned for me my mourning into dancing; You have put off my sackcloth and clothed me with gladness,

Psa 30:12 To the end that [my] glory may sing praise to You and not be silent. O LORD my God, I will give thanks to You forever.



Whether it is Job, Paul, or David, this precept stands in all generations...


Psa 30:5 For His anger [is but for] a moment, His favor [is for] life; Weeping may endure for a night, But joy [comes] in the morning.



In David's anguish, he said this to the Lord....

Psa 30:8 I cried out to You, O LORD; And to the LORD I made supplication:

Psa 30:9 "What profit [is there] in my blood, When I go down to the pit? Will the dust praise You? Will it declare Your truth?


Job said something similar to the Lord did he not?

Then we have this testimony by David..


Psa 30:11 You have turned for me my mourning into dancing; You have put off my sackcloth and clothed me with gladness,

Psa 30:12 To the end that [my] glory may sing praise to You and not be silent. O LORD my God, I will give thanks to You forever.


Self righteousness comes by following the law, the love of God comes by following the Holy Spirit.

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Jeff Marshalek

Phl 3:8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ

Phl 3:9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which [is] from the law, but that which [is] through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;


How did God enable Paul to know the difference between righteousness that comes from following the law, and righteousness which is from God by faith? The answer is found in the testimony we have from the book of Job.

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Jeff Marshalek

Poonen writes,

"In Job, chapters 26-31, Job gives a list of all the many good things he had done in his life to help others. As we read through these chapters, it is amazing to see the tremendous light that Job had about God and His ways and the high standard of life that he lived way back in those days when there was no Bible and without the indwelling Holy Spirit. It is good to look through some things in these chapters, because they put us to shame and challenge us to live at a much higher standard today."


He states that the testimonies of the Old Testament Saints put us to shame and that we are called to a 'much higher standard today." Is this statement based on the law or the Spirit? Let us see...

First let me state that if God does not through His Holy Spirit, extend the grace necessary for the situation, what can man do. Are we truly called to a higher standard compared with the OT Saints? Or are we like the OT Saints, in that all generations, are subject to the same work of the
Holy Spirit?

Meditate upon this Scripture and see if there is a difference...


Psa 34:4 I sought the LORD, and He heard me, And delivered me from all my fears.

Psa 34:5 They looked to Him and were radiant, And their faces were not ashamed.

Psa 34:6 This poor man cried out, and the LORD heard [him], And saved him out of all his troubles.

Psa 34:7 The angel [fn] of the LORD encamps all around those who fear Him, And delivers them.

Psa 34:8 Oh, taste and see that the LORD [is] good; Blessed [is] the man [who] trusts in Him!
....

Psa 34:15 The eyes of the LORD [are] on the righteous, And His ears [are open] to their cry.
...
Psa 34:17 [The righteous] cry out, and the LORD hears, And delivers them out of all their troubles.

Psa 34:18 The LORD [is] near to those who have a broken heart, And saves such as have a contrite spirit.

Psa 34:19 Many [are] the afflictions of the righteous, But the LORD delivers him out of them all.

Psa 34:20 He guards all his bones; Not one of them is broken.
...
Psa 34:22 The LORD redeems the soul of His servants, And none of those who trust in Him shall be condemned.



Many are the afflictions of the righteous, and the righteous cry out, and He delivers them. Is there any difference in God's work upon the righteous? Compare Psalm 34 with the writings of Paul...be a berean, seek the truth...

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Jeff Marshalek