| Poster | Thread |
mguldner
Member
Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1862
Kansas
| | Re: | | I disagree Sree,
The Holy Word and the Holy Spirit are One, and thus they operate together. Gray areas and Lukewarmness are very similar because Lukewarmnes breeds Gray areas. Someone says to the Lukewarm Christian "oh quit being such a legalist" and the Lukewarm Christian is so far from God at the time they simply agree, "Maybe I should lighten up a bit."
Many Christians are stagnate and have lost touch with the Word making them more likely to agree that something is gray rather than seeking the Holy Spirit and Word together for a definite answer.
We must be clear on one thing here is that if the Word is clear on the matter then the Holy Spirit doesn't need to speak to our hearts a conviction, its already written, so in matters of sin and the hard hitting questions like "Is there such an animal as a gay christian?" Answering being no Scripture is clear the sexually immoral do not inherit the Kingdom of God and that we, as Children of God and New Creature in Christ, must flee sin.
One could take your argument to the extreme and say, welp I am not convicted of this sin so it must be okay. This is false and I know that's likely not what you meant presenting your point of view. I guess I took all of these words to say this There must be a balance and Harmony of The Holy Spirit and The Holy Word. The Spirit will Line up and be in Harmony with the Word and the Word will Line up and be in Harmony with the Spirit, period.
_________________
Matthew Guldner
|
|
 2011/12/23 8:35 | Profile |
ginnyrose
Member
Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi
| | Re: | | Mama, Thank-you so much for sharing this article. It is well written and Biblical as far as I can see. The crux of the matter is found in this statement:
"One should refrain from using his freedom in an area which might cause others to sin. For "by sinning against the brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ. Therefore," Paul said, "if food causes my brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again, that I might not cause my brother to stumble."
It is all about submitting for the sake of the weaker brother or sister lest we cause them to stumble and woe on us if we are guilty of it.
God bless, Mama.
_________________
Sandra Miller
|
|
| 2011/12/23 8:42 | Profile |
roadsign
Member
Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777
| | Re: | | Quote:
Paul said, "if food causes my brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again, that I might not cause my brother to stumble."
For this reason I try to conform to the dress habits of a church I visit to avoid possible barriers. I think it is unhelpful to tempt worshippers to stumble into sin that is, to judge me unfairly, or to be distracted from God.
Yet, I often wonder who the weaker brother really is. Is it the legalistic-type of person who is always judging people by their outer appearance the kind of person who insists I conform to their prescribed standards or they will judge me as carnal that is, a grey Christian outside of the spiritual elite? This person is surely weak in grace-living!
I find it tempting to comply with the one whose approval I may seek most than to consider my weaker brother whom I may NOT even notice!
Who is my weaker brother? I need to know because I have a responsibility to this person.
Diane
_________________
Diane
|
|
| 2011/12/23 9:38 | Profile |
Sree
Member
Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1953
| | Re: | | Quote:
One could take your argument to the extreme and say, welp I am not convicted of this sin so it must be okay.
You are correct, it is really possible and there are many who deceive themselves in this area. For John 3:20 to come true, there are few preconditions. One should really be filled with Holy Spirit and should have clear decision of listening to the Spirit's voice. If someone is not willing to listen and obey the voice of Spirit then why should he even convict such a person?
Quote:
The Holy Word and the Holy Spirit are One
The Holy Spirit is actually the Spirit of the word. Every word has a spirit behind it. The Holy Spirit brings light on this spirit behind the word. Jesus came to teach us how to live by the word keeping the spirit of the word. For example 'Do not commit Murder- when someone reads it, he might understand that only Physically murdering someone is unlawful. Such a person only cares about the word and not about the spirit. They are legalists. A person with Spirit will understand that this verse also covers not to show his anger out. A person with much mature walk in Christ will even understand that looking at someone with Anger is like committing murder.
Same can be said about scriptures on Head covering for Women and wearing ornaments. If someone learns to cover her head understanding the spirit behind it then they will never judge others who do not cover, hence will not become legalist.
_________________
Sreeram
|
|
| 2011/12/23 10:13 | Profile |
Sree
Member
Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1953
| | Re: | | Quote:
Who is my weaker brother? I need to know because I have a responsibility to this person.
According to me a weaker brother is one who just lives by Word and not by the spirit behind it. As stated by Paul a brother who does not believe in eating unclean animal because the law says so is a weaker person. Another brother who lives by SPirit and understands that what goes into his mouth will not defile him and believes in eating everything created by God is considered spiritual and stronger. Now when these 2 brothers eat together, the freedom of the spiritual brother should not cause this other brother to stumble. So it is better for this spiritual brother to lower his standard when he is around with this weaker brother so as to save him from stumbling.
I do not eat pork because I come from a country that does not eat and am not used to it. In Church when other brothers eat port while dining with me, one of the brother always quotes this verse and asks whether they are causing me to stumble. I answer them saying, I am not eating pork because I am not used to it, and not to please God. So I have no judgmental attitude in this area towards those brothers who eat.
My wife and I go to a prayer meet where majority are Women and they do not cover their head. My wife covers her head during worship time. She asked me whether she has to continue covering because she feels like odd person out there. I told her if she is covering understanding the spirit behind and as a sign for her submission to me, and she has no judgmental thoughts in her mind on these other sisters who do not cover, then she can continue.
_________________
Sreeram
|
|
| 2011/12/23 10:33 | Profile |
roadsign
Member
Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777
| | Re: | | Quote:
So it is better for this spiritual brother to lower his standard when he is around with this weaker brother so as to save him from stumbling.
Sree, I think you are right, but I am still troubled. In order to diagnose another as weaker, I have to view myself as stronger and that is risky at best. After all, that is the very temptation for those who live by law!
And when I accommodate myself to another, surely I am not to LOWER my standard but to RAISE my moral standard it to a higher level that of love (ie Christian submission).
Im wondering how we could integrate this quote by JI Packer in this matter of personal practices as related to the conscience of another:
Love is a commitment to meet the need of another person and to make the other person great thereby.
Diane
_________________
Diane
|
|
| 2011/12/23 11:29 | Profile |
mama27
Member
Joined: 2010/11/20
Posts: 1482
| | Re: | | Maybe, because our hearts are deceitful and desperately wicked, we are to live above reproach so as not to cause a "weaker brother" to stumble whoever he is - seen or unseen.... |
|
| 2011/12/23 11:46 | Profile |
Sree
Member
Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1953
| | Re: | | Quote:
Sree, I think you are right, but I am still troubled. In order to diagnose another as weaker, I have to view myself as stronger and that is risky at best. After all, that is the very temptation for those who live by law!
Now I understand the depths of your Question. I dont think I have an exact answer. But remember we are not stronger in all aspects nor is the other brother weaker in all. So based on such practices we cannot judge a person as whole weaker or stronger. That us why bible encourages fellowship so that we can learn from one another.
_________________
Sreeram
|
|
| 2011/12/23 13:33 | Profile |
roadsign
Member
Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777
| | Re: | | Quote:
But remember we are not stronger in all aspects nor is the other brother weaker in all.
I like this, because it invites me to humbly receive from another believer as well as give.
What do you think of this:
Nowhere does the Bible speak about grey areas. But it does use the metaphor of shades light vs dark. We are called to be a LIGHT of the world to shine Gods glory through our lives. So - there can be grey Christians - those who may have mastered the right behaviors, but do not shine with the radiance of Christ. They have a form of godliness without the power.
What can turn our grey Christian living into brilliant living where we shine for Jesus - and others know Jesus' grace is real and liberating?
What scriptures apply here?
Diane
_________________
Diane
|
|
| 2011/12/23 14:27 | Profile |
elected
Member
Joined: 2004/11/21
Posts: 362
Tulsa OK
| | Re: | | Quote:
"Nowhere does the Bible speak about grey areas. But it does use the metaphor of shades light vs dark. We are called to be a LIGHT of the world to shine Gods glory through our lives. So - there can be grey Christians - those who may have mastered the right behaviors, but do not shine with the radiance of Christ. They have a form of godliness without the power."
If there is such a thing like "grey christians", then it should be equivalent to a compromised faith and lifestyle. In other words it should mean living, "with one foot on earth and the other in heaven." Such a compromised christianity is not acceptable for God. Whoever is in such a state, if they are not zealous and repent, then like the Laodicean church they risk of being "spit out of his mouth."
Some may deny that "gray" christianity exist or may justify it in their theology. The first group of christians make the mistake of doing the wrong diagnosis of a "sick" christian and may be making the mistake of telling him, "he has never been born again" since he is not spiritual or bearing fruit. And the second group justifies the state of a born again person who still lives in sin or lukewarmness, instead of showing him the cure of his sickness they do their best to ease his conscience and offer him a false insurance.
_________________
Redi
|
|
| 2011/12/23 17:17 | Profile |
