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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Blessings and Tithing

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twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2012
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Actually, Paul never taught tithing. There is only one place in the NT where tithing is discussed, and that is in the book of Hebrews. If you believe Paul authored that book then Paul actually used tithing as his example in teaching that the priesthood of Christ superseded the law as He is a priest after the order of Melchisadek. This teaching is in the context of demonstrating that we are no longer under the covenant of law but rather under a better covenant that has its roots in God's covenant of faith with Abraham.

If you will search SI you will find a lot of discussion on this topic that might be helpful. I personally think your recognition of inconsistency between the teaching of a new covenant and the teaching of the necessity of tithing is appropriate. If we are born again we have the ways of God written in our hearts and a lifestyle of generous and joyous giving will be a very natural outflow of the life of God in us.

That being said, I do not believe that if you do not tithe in a technical (10%) or legal way that you will fail to be blessed of God. I do believe we should pray for Israel and bless the Jewish people. That can mean finances or that can be prayer, or a host of other ways. I am not sure that we can write a formula that says blessing Israel financially plus not tithing equals any more or less of a blessing by God. God loves unconditionally but blesses obedience and consecration. So if you give out of obedience whether to Israel or to Uncle George you will be blessed. We also find in Colossians that we are to give joyously as we determine in our own hearts. A heart that expresses the love of God through giving and does it as unto the Lord will beat in the chest of a person that is blessed financially. I have found this to be true over and over again.


_________________
Travis

 2011/12/19 8:33Profile









 Re:

Tithing is not taught in the NT... and just like the rest of the Law (for instance: Lust/Adultry) the stakes are raised. Instead of giving 10%... 100% is now required.

Besides, true OT tithing is more like 35%.

The Law was fulfilled. Tithing is the one OT teaching that the church clings to... because it involves $$.

Krispy

 2011/12/19 9:59
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1901


 Re:

Hi Krispy,
I agree that tithing is for the old testament but in my church the Pastor teaches tithing because he believes it and as he sees it in obedience to God.
My point is that if I bless Israel and God chooses in his wisdom to bless me financially because of this,then according to some tithers he cant bless me because I dont tithe.Yours Staff
Do you see the contradiction?

 2011/12/20 16:35Profile
gamma-light
Member



Joined: 2012/2/14
Posts: 5


 Re:

A short answer that might shed some light.

A blessing is not "something" you get, but being blessed is what you are at all times when you are IN Christ. He IS the blessing that dwells within me. God does not possess blessings, provision, etc, HE IS IT to us on a very personal level in our individual daily walk with Him.
Israel is who we are in Him.
gamma-light

 2012/2/14 14:38Profile
ArtB
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 431
New York

 Re:

Quote:
by utilizer001 on 2011/12/16 17:28:31

I would suggest that the reason most churches teach tithing, is because it is taught by Paul in his epistles.



Jason, I could not find Paul's Epistles teaching Christians to Tithe. Please cite the epistles (i.e. letters) where Paul actually teaches that Christians must Tithe under the New Covenant (i.e. contract) we have with Jesus Christ.

Also, if tithing is actually included in the New Covenant, what penalty is assigned to those Christians who do not Tithe?


_________________
Arthur Biele

 2012/2/14 15:46Profile
ArtB
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 431
New York

 Re: Why we are not under the Mosaic Laws.

Quote:
by theEphah on 2011/12/18 19:12:31

But if you believe that the Law does not apply to you, then I guess it doesn't matter does it?



That is correct Ephah, the Mosaic Law does not at all apply to me. In fact, in his the book of Hebrews, Paul calls the Mosaic Law useless and worthless in that it can not save anyone. Paul also writes that Jesus is not of the temporal order of Levi, rather, Jesus is a Priest of the everlasting priesthood of Melchizedek, and that when there is a change of Priesthood, there is also a change of LAW.

In Galatians Paul writes:

Gal 3:10-12

10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM." 11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

And by Paul again reveals the purpose of the Mosaic Law:

Ro 5:20-21
20 The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21 so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Surprise surprise, God gave the Law of Moses so that sin will increase. And this was so that God's Grace would bring in through righteousness

I could never be justified by the LAW of MOSES. Putting myself under the mosaic Law means I've chosen and not life, which I have received through the blood covering of the unblemished LAMB.

Every year every Jew was condemned to die for not keeping the Mosaic Law. So as not to wipe out His Children (the offspring of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob), God allowed the High Priest to slay an unblemished Lamb, and the High Priest would enter beyond the thick strong Veil into the Holy of Holies where God dwelt, and the High Priest poured the the blood of the unblemished Lamb into the Ark of The Covenant, and God would see the blood covering the Commandments of the Law, and He withdrew His anger, and He did not slay all of His people for another year.

But:

Heb 10:1-12
For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near. Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins? But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year. For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says,

"SACRIFICE AND OFFERING YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED,
BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME;
IN WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN YOU HAVE TAKEN NO PLEASURE.
THEN I SAID, 'BEHOLD, I HAVE COME
(IN THE SCROLL OF THE BOOK IT IS WRITTEN OF ME)
TO DO YOUR WILL, O GOD.'"

8 After saying above, "SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS AND WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED, NOR HAVE YOU TAKEN PLEASURE in them" (which are offered according to the Law). Then He said, "BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO YOUR WILL."

He takes away the first [covenant] in order to establish the second (covenant). By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. NASU


These scriptures clearly reveal that we are not ever saved by doing the works of Keeping the Mosaic Law, but rather, we are saved from all our sins by the ultimate unblemished Lamb of God, Jesus, whose blood washes away all our sins for all time.

now Back to Galatians. Paul wrote:

"Gal 3:15-29
A Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is only a man's covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it. Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, " And to your seed," that is, Christ.

17 What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise. For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.

19 Why the Law then?

It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made.

20 Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one.

21 Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law.

22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed.

24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.

25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.

Jesus, speaking to His fellow Jews, stated: Mk 10:31
"But many who are first will be last, and the last, first."

God's chosen people, the true offspring of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, as a people were first, will be last to be saved, while the gentiles who were last are the first to be saved.

And saved they will be:


Ro 11:25-32

25 For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery — so that you will not be wise in your own estimation — that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; 26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,

"THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION,
HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB."
27 "THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM,
WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS."

28 From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; 29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience, 31 so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. 32 For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.
NASU



_________________
Arthur Biele

 2012/2/14 17:33Profile









 Re:

"God says he will bless those who bless Israel."

Isreal, the ethnic nation state is at least currently cut off from God. God blesses those who trust in Christ. So your dilema about tithing and Isreal is a made up one. You would be best to give as lead by the Spirit to orphans and widows or to advance the preaching of the Gospel to the ends of the earth.

I wonder what kind of blessing people are looking for anyway? Can someone give me an example. All true saints already have the unspeakable riches of Christ and are blessed with faithful Abraham. We even have in Christ, what Abraham could only look forward to. That seems like the ultimate blessing to me - having Christ and Christ having us.

-Jim

 2012/2/14 18:20





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