| Poster | Thread |
| | Re: | | a-servant Quote:
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Some think the way out of that is to redefine sin, believe in Jesus and then God's law has died to us. But few ever consider that it is us that die, and not the law. Then Christ Jesus becomes the life in us, and we walk as he walked, by faith. Yes, that's considered the "foolishness of the cross".
What a wonderful revelation. True and sincere. Excellent explanation of scripture.
Praise Yahweh
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|  2011/12/25 12:13 | |
| | Re: | | ArtB Quote:
All who place themselves under the Mosaic Covenant with its' 613 laws, will perish.
ArtB, the laws came directly from our heavenly father who is Yahweh, if the father has a different set of laws and the son has a different set of laws as you indicted in your post, then the son is in direct conflict or contadiction with the father don't you think? |
| | 2011/12/25 12:20 | | ArtB
Member
Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 431
New York
| | Re: | | by theEphah on 2011/12/25 9:20:16
Quote:
ArtB (wrote) Quote:
All who place themselves under the Mosaic Covenant with its' 613 laws, will perish.
ArtB, the laws came directly from our heavenly father who is Yahweh, if the father has a different set of laws and the son has a different set of laws as you indicted in your post, then the son is in direct conflict or contradiction with the father don't you think?
Well, if you read the OT carefully, God the father never intended the people of the Exodus to have the Mosaic Law, but He knew their hearts and gave them what they wanted to reveal we can not be righteous on our own efforts. They were a stiff necked people who did not walk by faith, as shown by their vote to not take and possess the Promised Land of Milk and Honey, they lacked faith in God. Of the 12 spies sent into the promised Land, Only Joshua (i.e. Hosea) and Caleb trusted in YHWH and wanted to conquer the promised land.
Instead, they sought a Covenant, a contract, with God, whereby if they kept His rules, whatever they be, if they kept them then God will bestow long life and great blessings in wealth, health, victories over their enemies, and great prosperity, and in return they would keep all His commandments. God gave them what they wanted. Then Moses read the 613 commandments given at Mt. Sinai (which is in Saudi Arabia where Moses dwelt for 40 years after leaving Egypt). The peoples agreed to them and entered a firm contract with God which they agreed to by proclaiming 'This will we do." as Moses confirmed this Covenant through the sprinkling of blood upon them as they shouted "I do".
The people of the Exodus spent 40 years wandering in the wilderness, and everyone perished because they violated the Mosaic Covenant, including Moses, only Hosea (Whom God renamed Joshua prior to the Exodus) and Caleb, the two who wanted to conquer the Promised Land.
This Joshua was very special, God changed his name from Hosea to Joshua (gr. Jesus). When Moses received the commandments on Mt Sinai, only Joshua was allowed to be on that Mountain; Moses was the only person allowed to go into the tent where God dwelt, Joshua lived in that tent. When Moses broke the Mosaic Law, he was not permitted by God to enter the promise land, Joshua was put in charge of the people of the exodus, Joshua lead them into the Promise Land, and he remained their leader until his death, and he obeyed God in all that he did.
No one gets saved by keeping the Mosaic Law. Moses read the Mosaic Laws to all who were about to enter the Promised Land - which would be called Israel - and after hearing the Law, all the peoples about to enter the promised land signed onto the Mosaic Covenant with blood sprinkled upon them, bounding them to that Covenant (LAW). Before they had a chance to break the Mosaic Covenant they entered into, God said to Moses 'these are a stiff-necked people who will never keep the Law.'
God also told Moses that He will send another Prophet like Moses, and that they better listen to Him. God would send His Son Jesus, and salvation was to be by faith by accepting Jesus blood as atonement for all who believe Him and accept that His blood washes away all or sins for all time, no additional sacrifice would be required. Jesus told the Jewish religious leaders that they search the scriptures looking for eternal life, and that It was Moses who wrote about Him.
When Jesus died on the cross, it was finished - 'Telestia'.
At the moment that Jesus died, The Curtain in the temple split in two, the Curtain that separated God from man. At that very moment God annihilated the Mosaic Law, in accord the Prophecy of Zechariah:
Please note that Ze 11: 1-6 prophecies the destruction of Herods' Temple in 66 AD.
Zech 11:7-14
7 So I pastured the flock doomed to slaughter, hence the afflicted of the flock. And I took for myself two staffs: the one I called Favor and the other I called Union; so I pastured the flock. Then I annihilated the three shepherds in one month, for my soul was impatient with them, and their soul also was weary of me. Then I said, "I will not pasture you. What is to die, let it die, and what is to be annihilated, let it be annihilated; and let those who are left eat one anothers' flesh." I took my staff Favor and cut it in pieces, to break my covenant which I had made with all the peoples. 1So it was broken on that day, and thus the afflicted of the flock who were watching me realized that it was the word of the LORD. I said to them, "If it is good in your sight, give me my wages; but if not, never mind!" So they weighed out thirty shekels of silver as my wages. Then the LORD said to me, "Throw it to the potter, that magnificent price at which I was valued by them." So I took the thirty shekels of silver and threw them to the potter in the house of the LORD. Then I cut in pieces my second staff Union, to break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.
The only bi-lateral contract God had with the peoples prior to the New Covenant is the Mosaic Covenant - The LAW.
In Hebrews, Paul states that the LAW was worthless and useless because it could not save anyone. He points out that Jesus is not a Priest of the Levitical priesthood, but rather, Jesus is a Priest of an everlasting Priesthood of Melchizedek, and that where there is a change of priesthood, there is also a change of Law.
The NT gives us 3 Laws of the New Covenant:
Law 1: The Royal Law of Love.
Law 2: The Law of Liberty
Law 3: The Law of the Spirit of Life (Romans:8)
I like what Tozer wrote: "We must not select a few favorite passages to the exclusion of others. Nothing less than a whole Bible can make a whole Christian."
Overall Context is very important.
If one is going to be brought before the Great Judge when their life ends, shouldn't they know what set of LAWS they are going to be judged by.
LAW 1 - The Royal Law of Love, Love God with all your heart, mind, and soul; and love others as you love yourselves.
"You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
NC Commandment 2. The Law of Liberty: "Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF," you are doing well. But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. For He who said, "DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY," also said, "DO NOT COMMIT MURDER." Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by The Law of Liberty. For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; MERCY TRIUMPHS OVER JUDGMENT.
NC Commandment 3: The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. Paul contrast the Gospel and NT Laws of Christ with the OT LAW of Moses.
Ro 8:1-11 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
5. For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9. However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
{and so on thru verse 39 of Romans Chapter 8).
We Christians have the indwelling Holy Spirit, given to the Church on Pentecost, our Help through whom God changes our very inner being that whom transforms us and enables to do bear the good fruit God always desires of us.
These Three Laws are the Laws of Jesus Christ of the New Covenant. The Mosaic Covenant was useless and worthless in that they could not save anyone. This is why The Father sent His Son: To fulfill it from birth to death, then Jesus, being perfect in keeping the Mosaic Laws completely throughout His life and thereby became the Perfect Lamb of God, He accepted the punishment we all deserve for being sinners. We are not saved by doing all the works required by the Mosaic Law, but we are solely saved by the blood atonement of Jesus Christ for all who believe in Him and accept His blood as atonement for all their sins.
I now have a personal relationship with God whereby I love Him, and He loves me, and there is no fear, just love. And I do not even think about the Mosaic Laws with its' 613 commandments. God in me who works all things to the good who believe and trust His Word. We truly walk by faith, believing and trusting God in all circumstances.
The purpose of the Mosaic Law was to cause sin to increase, it was our tutor until Jesus the Messiah came, so that we may know how much we really need God in our life, and to see how much He loves us by what He has done for us, and to be enabled by this New Covenant relationship whereby He transforms our very nature by the indwelling Holy Spirit, and we Love Him and we also love one another, even our enemies we ought to love and bless. NASU.
And I will never put myself under the Mosaic Law.
I have the perfect Laws of Jesus Christ, which I live by faith. Through His New Covenant Laws, God saves me. And this is a true gift from God which i gladly and rejoicely accepted.
_________________
Arthur Biele
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| | 2011/12/27 17:04 | Profile | Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.
| | Re: | | Amen ArtB;
It is still the same way today, even Israel is still a stiff-necked people and want to do it their way. All men want to do it their way. The Cross was not quite enough and Jesus did not shed quite enough blood, we must accept Him as Savior and then we must do what was lacking at the Cross. I surely have in my own works some good that will keep me saved and I must do my best so the Father will accept my offering of works and add them to the work of the Cross which could just not be enough, close but no cigar.
NOT!!!!!!!!!
He did it all and if I will just get out of the way, Christ Himself will come forth from me as me, that is not me growing up into Christ but me allowing what God has done and give Him free reign to work out my life as God intends. This is the fulfillment of Col 1:25-29. Presenting every men in Christ Perfect before the Father because of the Christ that is in me. My lobour is intense, it is turning loose of all I do and trusting in all He does, that is the hardest work for a believer in Christ, trusting in Him to accomplish the work He has begun in me. "It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me; and the life I now live I live by the faith of the Son of God Gal 2:20".
When will we ever see God who never intended me to be a me unto myself, but A Christ Person unto the Father. Because it says, "As He is; so are we in this world" If we just make it so.
In Christ: Phillip
_________________
Phillip
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| | 2011/12/27 19:21 | Profile |
| | Re: | | ArtB wrote: Quote:
LAW 1 - The Royal Law of Love, Love God with all your heart, mind, and soul; and love others as you love yourselves.
Deuteronomy 6:5 Positive Commandment #3
And you must love Yahweh your father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.
Positive Commandment #206
Love your neighbor, whether a brother or an enemy, as yourself.
Leviticus 19:18
Do not seek revenge nor bear a grudge against one of your own people; but you shall love your brother or your sister as yourself. I am Yahweh.
Compare these two commandments to your post and you'll realize that it's identical; so in a nutshell you've quoted the Old Testament Law as if it's something new.
LoL |
| | 2011/12/27 21:55 | | ArtB
Member
Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 431
New York
| | Re: | | Christinyou, yes - Amen. God could not make it any easier to be saved, through His love, and guidance, and the blood covering, and the indwelling Holy Spirit.
theEphah wrote:
"Deuteronomy 6:5 Positive Commandment #3
And you must love Yahweh your father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.
Positive Commandment #206
Love your neighbor, whether a brother or an enemy, as yourself."
Yes, in my post, I quoted Jesus referencing these two OT verses when He was asked, 'what is the greatest commandment?' The 1st in importance was from Deuteronomy 6:5. and Jesus identified the 2nd most important commandment is "Love your neighbor, whether a brother or an enemy, as yourself."
We are fully agreed on these.
And Paul did write in Romans that the Gentiles will be the first saved, and when the times of the gentiles comes to an end to enter the Kingdom, then all Israel will be saved. This is what Jesus meant when He said "The first shall be last, and the last shall be first."
Well it is late now and I must go to bed.
O sleep, O gentle sleep, nature's soft nurse!
Sleep that knits up the ravell'd sleave of care,...
We are such stuff as dreams are made of.
and our little life is rounded with a sleep. W.S
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Arthur Biele
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| | 2011/12/28 0:58 | Profile | Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.
| | Re: | | Testing ourselves in the Law, even keeping it perfect, does not give life. The only eternal life is in the Son. 1 John 5:11-12. If life is in the Son then the old nature, the old man has been crucified with Christ. Gal 2:20 The new life in nature and Spirit is overcoming the flesh by the Grace and Power of God. The weakness of God is stronger than the power of man. The foolishness of God is wiser than wisdom of man.
God intended from the before the beginning of the world, that we would be conformed to the image of His Son. By being born again our new nature which is "Christ in you the hope of glory" now by the power of God will conform us the the image of His Son. Whom of God has made unto us wisdom, (Gods wisdom in Christ Jesus), Righteousness, (the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus,) Sanctification, (the transforming nature of Christ Jesus,) Justification and Redemption, (Christ Jesus born again of incorruptable Seed in us.)
I want to be tested by the Faith of Jesus Christ that is in me. I want to be tested in righteousness by His righteousness that is in me. I want to be sanctified by His life and nature in me. I want to be wise by His wisdom that is in me. I don't want to be tested in the Law, I will surely fail, none have made it, save Jesus Christ who is birthed in me. Praise God for the Cross and His Son that is rebirthed in me. By the Son, I am a son.
In Christ: Phillip
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Phillip
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| | 2011/12/28 14:04 | Profile | roadsign
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| | Re: | | Quote:
and everyone perished because they violated the Mosaic Covenant, including Moses,
Which specific Covenant laws did the people violate.. did Moses violate?
What references in scripture would support this diagnosis?
How does this relate to the meaning of "spiritual" as used here in the thread title?
Diane
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Diane
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| | 2011/12/28 18:34 | Profile | sonsigns
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| | Re: Are You Spiritual And Not Under Law? | | Very good Doug...
No Christian can be spiritual by him or her self, it is through the Holy Spirit and only through the Holy Spirit can a Christian walk in the spirit.
Yet, how can we say we walk in the spirit if you don't seek God and his Kingdom first?
Dear Brothers & sisters in the Faith, read Galatians 3:19
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William Cato
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| | 2011/12/28 23:05 | Profile |
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