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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Law Tithing VS. Spirit led giving?

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 Re:

It's truly amazing to me at times how people can so completely misunderstand what I am saying on here.

Nevermind.

Krispy

 2011/11/25 19:29
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

""Quote:

Also stay out of the Old Testsament and camp in the New.



This is the only thing I would disagree with. Everything is the Word of God:""

True the whole Word of God is the Old and the New Testament. Is their life in Christ in the Old? If we had nothing but the Word of God given by Paul, would we have a life giving Gospel?

The old shows me no matter what I do, I cannot please God. That is why God chose me in Christ before the foundation of the world. I cannot acquire salvation by what I do. The old is God breathed, and the new is life and peace in Christ Jesus in giving me life in the life that is birthed in me.

Sorry Krispy you get frurstrated, that is not my intent, but life and peace in Christ Jesus who is my life. Yes Christ is in the old, if not there is no understanding and the Jews still don't get it, they knowing the old better than anyone, but what and how we are to live in Christ is in the new, come by the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus and baptized into One Spirit taught by the Holy indwelling Spirit of promise given to Paul to fulfill the Word of God.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2011/11/25 19:55Profile
SHMILY
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Joined: 2009/12/13
Posts: 202
Northern Idaho

 Re: Law Tithing VS. Spirit led giving?

This topic always makes me smile. That is because the implication ~ at least to me ~ seems we are willing to "present our bodies a living sacrifice" (Rom 12:1) to Him but we sure don't want Him near our money. ;)



One of my grandsons used to call me and say, "Grammy, do you have time to look up some lyrics. They're suppose to be a Christian band ....." Bottom line, satan was whispering "Did God really say ..." and Devin wondered how close he could get his big hairy toe to the line without crossing it. (He has since had a strong Christian man come along side to mentor him through the Word and using Paul Washer sermons and Henry Blackaby writings etc. and he is making wiser choices on his own.)



Hm-m-m ... what does God desire now??



Zac Poonen has a good message that covered this. I am sorry I do not remember the name of it but it was about the difference between the old and new covenants.



He speaks of what the Lord required in the old and what is different in the new. I will try to give the related gist of that message but if you or someone else can find it it would be clearer.



He reminds us we are to be "bond-slaves" of Jesus Christ. As a bond slave our life is not our own. Nothing we have is ours. Even our money is not ours. In the OC one day ~ the sabbath ~ was required. NC all of our time is His to direct. How much do I really need for me? Am I redeeming the time? OC was a tithe about 10% ~ however when the various required offerings were added it was closer to 25% I think. NC it is all His so how much do I really need for me and how much is for His work? Jesus said He was about the Father's work and so are we to be both with body and resources.



The Pharisee's tithed even their kitchen herbs. The widow gave all. Which one am I closer to being like???







Re: OT/NT You cannot really understand the new without the old. The old tells of God and who He is and how strongly He feels about sin and about His name. It is the beginning of the story of Jesus... The first church only had the OT to work with until the other letters and gospels were written and distributed. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever.



Be blessed!

REJOICE! =)

Mary

 2011/11/25 22:12Profile









 Re:

In his famous work, Lectures to My Students, Spurgeon writes, “Don’t you know, young man, that from every town and every village and every hamlet in England, wherever it may be, there is a road to London? So from every text of Scripture (Old and New) there is a road to Christ. And my dear brother, your business is, when you get to a text, to say, now, what is the road to Christ?"

Krispy

 2011/11/26 6:29









 Re: Law Tithing VS. Spirit led giving?

2 Tim 3:16-17 "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

When PAUL wrote this he was talking about the old testament. period. So I would encourage those who say I only need New testament to be carefull of judging other s who find the fullfilling of what Paul says above!.

When Paul was rebuking the corinthians for saying "I am of Paul, I am of appolis I am of Christ he declared is Christ divided??"

In the same way when we say I am of New testament ONLY we are doing what Paul warned not to do.

When we read the old we read it in light of the new. But read the old we should cuz PAUL said to!!!

So if Paul tells Timothy to tell everyone else in the churches to do this then it applies to us as well.
Otherwise we are now creating a new teachng outside of scripture similiar to trying to uphold Tithing laws for the new covenant.

Now finally, If you only want to read New Testament (edit add, NT "ONLY") then Lord bless you and keep you for your choice. However, please acknowledge your fellow brothers being correct in reading the OT and recieving blessing from God in it!!

 2011/11/26 7:05
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

There is no denying, there is nothing in the whole Word of God that is not profitable. But when I get to London, why would I want to go back to towns, villiages and hamlets.

Hebrews 6:1 says it plainly; "Let us go on into perfection"

Now that I am in London, lets learn how we now live.

I live in Christ now and He is the only city on the hill I want to know about.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2011/11/26 13:38Profile
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Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1901


 Re:

Hi,I think your point on "bond servant" is very good.
This scripture came to mind on the subject.
Christians who tithe often say that the consequences of not tithing is not being blessed financially,however the scripture below says that its "faith" and "seeking gods kingdom and his righteousness" and all things will be added.Could anyone comment on this thanks staff

Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is , and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? 31 Therefore take no thought , saying , What shall we eat ? or, What shall we drink ? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed ? 32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek :) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. 33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. 34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

 2011/11/26 16:23Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3433
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Law Tithing VS. Spirit led giving?

Quote:
thingsabove wrote:
So any thoughts. Also does anyone know of any popular teachers/pastors who would advocate freedom from old testamnt tithe law??


Are you kidding??!! I don’t know of ANY “popular” teachers/pastors that would advocate pay-as-you-go!! They usually have huge debt and buildings they have to make payments on and giving the sheep freedom doesn’t work in their favor.

These churches experiment in ways to get more money, at least the one I went to did because a few years back I was in on the ‘worship planning’ committee and at the time this church had big boxes in the back of the church for offerings and they started experimenting in different ways to see which brought in more money and talking about it at the meetings....like standing up for offering, sitting down for offering, or the box in the back. They eventually got rid of the boxes in the back.

They started out trusting in the Lord with the boxes in the back but it came down to trying to get more money out of people. They found they got more money by passing around the plate but even MORE money if they could get the men to stand up, that gave the men better access to their wallets ($2000 a week MORE) and that they needed to preach on tithing at least two times a year but hopefully four times and at these times they really looked for people to give a testimony about how paying tithes has blessed them.

If I ever go back to church, I’m not getting involved in leadership planning meetings, it’s very discouraging to listen to them.

God bless,
Lisa


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Lisa

 2011/11/26 16:45Profile









 Re:

Quote:
These churches experiment in ways to get more money, at least the one I went to did because a few years back I was in on the ‘worship planning’ committee and at the time this church had big boxes in the back of the church for offerings and they started experimenting in different ways to see which brought in more money and talking about it at the meetings....like standing up for offering, sitting down for offering, or the box in the back. They eventually got rid of the boxes in the back.



Yep... been there seen that!

Krispy

 2011/11/26 18:05
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2012
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

The reality is that we live in a world where money is the medium of exchange and to effectively do the work of the ministry we are going to have to use money. However when we begin to see people as our source of supply we get ourselves into trouble. God is our source. He will use obedient people as the means of channeling the supply to us, but He alone remains the source. When we see people as the source we are often tempted toward manipulation of people. When we see God as the source we are forced onto our face before Him to seek Him for His will. Remember how God had a place called "there" for Elijah. He said, "Go to the brook Cherith for there is where I have provided for you." If we are in the center of God's will He will supply. The trick is to put ourselves in the center of His will in whatever ministry it is. If we are doing His thing He will supply.

I do recall hearing a minister say that if we all gave according to the New Testament model that we would see a lot of unfruitful ministries die and a lot of fruitful ones thrive. We would give where the Spirit of God directed us to and do it joyfully. If my heart is in tune with the Holy Spirit then I believe "where I purpose in my heart" will be where God also purposes that I give. I thought it a really good perspective.


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Travis

 2011/11/26 19:04Profile





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