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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Law Tithing VS. Spirit led giving?

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 Law Tithing VS. Spirit led giving?

My general understanding about New covenant giving is that we are no longer under the mosaic law of tithing. We are now under the new covenant Law of Christ which is more of what ever I have is yours but I can also keep what I need to do with as I feel led by God to do.

I bring this up cuz recently in the church I currently attend the New pastor really comes off very legalistic about tithing. mentioning before the congregation that he signs the giving statements at the end of the year and would he after looking at this determine if someone was a tither or not.

This and a few other things have caused me to relook at the whole teaching in new testament giving vs. old testament tithing.

So any thoughts. Also does anyone know of any popular teachers/pastors who would advocate freedom from old testamnt tithe law??

 2011/11/25 6:51
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2012
Joplin, Missouri

 Re: Law Tithing VS. Spirit led giving?

thingsabove: I don't think I would be looking for popular teachers who advocate either position. Not that you might not get some good teaching on the topic. I think I would go back to the Word on the matter. There are a few places in the New Testament that deal with giving and/or tithing and whole books that deal with the law and the new covenant. There are some basics of the New Testament that I use to determine how I should give.

The born again believer has been freed from the law. We are no longer under law but under grace. Since tithing was a commandment of the law I must assume I am free from that commandment as well.

2 Corinthians 9:27 tells us the motive that should accompany giving. We should give as we determine in our heart, not due to emotional appeal (sadness or in the KJV begrudgingly), nor out of contraint (or because we must). To me this eliminates the law as it constrained us to give which would be consistent with Paul's teachings in the rest of the NT.

Hebrews 7 is the only place in the NT where we find tithing associated with any type of teaching. (The only other reference is in Matthew and is the boasting of a Pharisee.) In Heb. 7 the point is NOT a teaching on tithing but rather a teaching on the coming of a new priesthood, the Levitical priesthood being abolished and replaced with the coming of a new and better covenant. Tithing, interestingly enough, is used here as the example to clearly demonstrate the coming of the new priesthood. The point is NOT to demonstrate any kind of a NT tithing commandment but rather to demonstrate that there was another priesthood to whom Levi paid tithes and who blessed Levi. This shows that the Melchisedec priesthood superseded the Levitical priesthood and that Jesus is after the order of Melchisedec, His priesthood superseding that of Levi and thus being superior. The tithes that Abraham gave had nothing to do with law as the law was not yet. It had everything to do with Abraham purposing in his heart to give to God a tenth of the spoils of victory. I find it a bit amusing that the very scriptures that show the law and its ordinances being superseded by the covenant of grace is sometimes used to support the continuance of the tithing aspect of the law. ????




_________________
Travis

 2011/11/25 7:14Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Something the Lord spoke to me awhile back, when I was occupying myself with this same question was, "If you read the New Testament for the first time in your life, without any prior knowledge of the Old Testament, would you come away from the book with an inclination to give 10% of your money to me as a requirement, or observe the Sabbath as a requirement, or keep a certain feast or circumsize your children as requirements?"

I've never forgot it. I suddenly imagined myself a savage African tribesman in the early 19th century and some missionary handed me a New Testament in my own native tongue: The Gospel of Jesus Christ. Would I be inclined to systematically tithe after reading it? The answer is simple. God has made everything so simple in Christ Jesus; man mixes and obfuscates and unneccesarily complicates.


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Paul Frederick West

 2011/11/25 7:45Profile









 Re: Law Tithing VS. Spirit led giving?

Quote:
I bring this up cuz recently in the church I currently attend the New pastor really comes off very legalistic about tithing. mentioning before the congregation that he signs the giving statements at the end of the year and would he after looking at this determine if someone was a tither or not.



Wow... this is a pathetic thing for a pastor to say. It's manipulation and it's intimidation in order to get people to act in a certain way. This certainly does not jive with what God says. God says everything we do should be motivated by our love for the Saviour.

Quote:
Also does anyone know of any popular teachers/pastors who would advocate freedom from old testamnt tithe law??



I always find it interesting that televangelists and WOF preachers are VERY much teaching the law of the tithe... they have to! Otherwise their false teachings do not work. Isnt funny that when the gospel is not preached properly legalism ALWAYS fills the void?!

PAUL WEST... excellent word. You are right on target. I have always thought that someone from another culture who is totally foreign to the gospel and has not been conditioned all their life by the American church... would draw some conclusions about the NT that would be completely different from ours. I dont think they would all be correct, but I think most would be closer to the truth. Tithing being one of them. Instead of tithing... they would probably give and share everything.

Krispy

 2011/11/25 8:07









 Re:

Then the answer is simple. Give as God leads you to give. For those who are being led by the Spirit they are the sons of God. Also stay out of the Old Testsament and camp in the New. The Old Testament is the shadow. The New Testament is the reality of Christ. The Son of God is God's ultimate word.

For the brother who started this thread. Find another church. One where the grace of Jesus is lived out. If you stay where you are st you are looking st much heart ache and bondage. I speak from painful experience on that.

Blaine Scogin

 2011/11/25 8:27









 Re:

Quote:
Also stay out of the Old Testsament and camp in the New.



This is the only thing I would disagree with. Everything is the Word of God:

2 Tim 3:16-17 "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

The answer is not to avoid the OT, for thru the OT we gain a rich understanding of the NT. The answer is to understand the OT in it's proper context, and to find Christ in it... because He is there!

I cringe whenever someone says to stick with the NT only. Some people, particularly new Christians, take that to heart... and because they follow that advise they rob themselves of a thorough understanding of Jesus and the gospel.

The whole Bible is God's redemptive history. We need it all. What we need is proper understanding, not avoiding.

Krispy

 2011/11/25 8:46
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2012
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Quote:

Also stay out of the Old Testsament and camp in the New.



This is the only thing I would disagree with. Everything is the Word of God:



Krispy is so right to disagree. A thorough understanding of the OT is so vitally important. We do not live under the old covenant, but that does not mean that we abandon the old testament for the new. We simply do not live according to the law any more.


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Travis

 2011/11/25 11:44Profile









 Re:

thanks for the unified response. I appreciate the collective wisdom. I had hoped that there might be a few "respected" preachers from the mainstream that I might be able to refer to in addition to the scriptures of course. but in the end we must rest on the simplicity of our Lord Jesus Christ and the Apostles!!


Also regarding the OT, these to scriptures often pop in my mind in addition to the Timothy scripture.


1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. {ensamples: or,

Ro 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.


Thanks again.

 2011/11/25 16:24
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

"""Quote:

Also stay out of the Old Testsament and camp in the New.

This is the only thing I would disagree with. Everything is the Word of God:"""


The Old Testament does not fulfill the Word of God. Only Christ in Paul with His message, "MY GOSPEL" revealed to Paul who was chosen from his mothers womb, Quote:
Col: 1: 25-29. The mystery even in the old testament unto Paul. The mystery hidden from all, until revealed to Paul, Col 1:26. The MYSTERY, Christ in man, born again in the believer by the incorruptable Seed of the Father, which is "Christ in you the hope of glory" Col 1: 27.

There is no life in the old testament, the Life in Christ can only come after the Cross, In Him, and In the plan of God for His own birthed children, not revealed until Paul, even Chosen before the foundation of the world. Eph 1:4

The old sinful lawbreaker was killed with Christ, yet here I am, yet not I but Christ who lives in me, which life I now live by His Faith and Life in me. Gal 2: 16-20.

In Christ, new life in me: Phillip

"Behold all things have become new"


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Phillip

 2011/11/25 16:50Profile









 Re:

Hebrews 10:1
The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming----not the realities themselves.

Colossians 3:17
These are a shadow of the things that were to come, the reality, however, is found in Christ.

The two verses above describe the Old Testament as a shadow of the reality of Christ. Now Jesus has come. We are in him. He lives in us. The New Testament describes Jesus as the final revlation of God. That being said the believer in Christ needs onky the Holy Spirit and the New Testament to guide him.

This is such beautiful simplicicity.

Blaine

 2011/11/25 18:56





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