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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Till All Things Come to Be

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Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 724

 Till All Things Come to Be

This thread is to equip those who need help in understanding Jesus' words in Matthew 5:17-18

"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or tittle will by no means pass from the Law till all is fulfilled"

The word "fulfilled" comes from "γένηται" (come to be). The questions then we must answer are what must "come to be" and "has it come to be?"

Having dear friends in the Hebraic Roots movement has caused me to wrestle with this valid question, because they are sincere in their insistence that the jots and tittles are still in force - because in their minds - things have not yet "come to be". In their mind Jesus would never overturn the Law of His Father, and they are correct. Jesus stated that He did not come to destroy it, rather to fulfill it. He did, perfectly-it has come to be.

Paul, the Jew of all Jews, received this by revelation. He helped spell it out for us and my hope is that this will help some who have dear friends in this growing movement. I apologize for the length, and will attempt to share no more than what will help the reader have the key to lay hold of what "has come to be."

First - Colossians 1:18 "He is the head of the body, the church, who is the firstborn from the dead, so that γένηται 'might come to be' in all things He having preeminence." His preeminence has "come to be"! The shadows of the Law have been replaced by the substance of the very being of God's nature. Go on to read verse 19 and 20 and you will see we have been made complete (something the Law was powerless to do - for the Law made nothing perfect). Now, all things have been reconciled to God through His blood that made peace. JOY to the world, the Lord has come and peace to all men. PEACE has come to be. The Preeminence of the Prince of Peace has come to be and He has removed the dividing wall of hostility, the Law of commandments contained in ordinances. He abolished them in His flesh.

Second - Romans 7:4 - "Therefore my brethren, you also were put to death to The Law through the body of Christ unto (so that) γενέσθαι you might COME TO BE to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. Those who die are released from that by which they were bound. It has COME TO BE that we belong to another - to Him who was raised from the dead. "For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the Law were at work in our members to bear fruit unto death (the Letter kills). But NOW we have been delivered from the Law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not the oldness of the Letter." Our marriage to Christ has COME TO BE - we have COME TO BElong to another.
Now that faith in Christ has come, we are no longer under supervision of the Law. Just like Paul, we have died to the Law through the body of Christ and we now belong to Him who has the preeminence.

Third: II Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore if any man is IN Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold ALL THINGS HAVE BECOME γέγονεν (perfect passive indicative) NEW! The OLD has gone - the NEW has COME TO BE! The old former covenant that had come with glory, fading though it was, has been surpassed by the exceeding unfading glory of God seen in the face of Jesus Christ.

Take heart saints, all things HAVE COME TO BE that had to come to be before the jots and tittles would pass away.
There is so much more to be seen, but I respect the time constraints of the reader. I have not begun to exhaust the evidence available to answer the question. These are just some verses for those of us who need help giving an answer to why our hope is IN HIM not the Law.


Alan and Dina Martin

 2011/11/22 13:15Profile

Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7511

 Re: Till All Things Come to Be

Alan, it might be helpful to explain the different laws as given in Leviticus.

There was the ceremonial/rituals laws, the civil laws, and the moral laws. Too many folks lump them altogether and you have a false doctrine taking root in that holiness is not essential - anything that reflects the moral law is law and is fulfilled in Christ. The end result is that there is rampant lawlessness among the popular church - we call it apostasy and others call it liberty in Christ.

Will be watching this thread but know it will lead to controversy.

Sandra Miller

 2011/11/22 13:55Profile

Joined: 2010/4/7
Posts: 71

 Re: Till All Things Come to Be

Thank you for sharing this! I'm amazed at how I missed the end of the verse you quoted! "Till all is fulfilled" we know that Jesus fulfilled the law. So it makes perfect sense that nothing had passed from the law so that Jesus fulfilled the whole law. Now it has been fulfilled, it can and has passed away. Glory to God! I think this verse from Luke is fitting for this topic.

Luke 16:16

The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.


 2011/11/22 14:04Profile

Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 724


I do understand your concern dear sister, but we will never stop the grace of our Lord being turned into licentiousness. We must let the Lord deal with those who do this. Those who are truly seeking to be conformed into the image of Jesus Christ will certainly become holy as He is holy. No true disciple will ever be satisfied until he is fully like his teacher.

This thread is to show that ALL THINGS HAVE COME TO BE. Please allow it to stay on topic.


Alan and Dina Martin

 2011/11/22 14:12Profile

Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2012
Joplin, Missouri

 Re: Till All Things Come to Be

makrothumia: Enjoyed the post. I had never done this study myself and look forward to repeating it for myself. I know that to the casual reader the teachings of Paul look as if they oppose the old testament as well as many statements made by Jesus and even Paul himself. I know that this is the conflict that the Hebrew Roots Movement as well as others deal with and have trouble reconciling. I have even known of some in the HRM who have decided that Paul's writings are not worthy of being considered scripture.

We are told in scripture to study to show ourselves approved, workmen that are not ashamed because we are rightly dividing the word of truth. We all need to study and we all need to discuss the things we receive from that study with other believers. So I hope a discussion does not lead to friction but rather resolution as we see the truth.

Paul makes some very strong statements in his letter to the Romans and to the Galatians about the purpose of the law. The writer of Hebrews does the same.

The law is still in effect, for those who attempt to obtain righteousness through their own effort rather than through the atoning work of Jesus Christ. Man will be judged by God by the law. Even those who have no knowledge of the OT law have, as Paul said in Romans, a knowledge of the law of God shown in the fact that they make laws to judge one another. But the purpose of the law, to condemn sin and show us guilty before God, has its answer in the atoning work of Jesus Christ. The restraining effects of the law have their fulfillment in the guidance of the Holy Spirit. His laws are now written on our hearts. We no longer obey a set of written laws in our flesh, but we are governed by the Holy Spirit and the life of holiness is an outflow of the spirit of righteousness.

I would have to say that I believe the division between ceremonial / civil / moral / etc. law that many make in the OT is in my opinion a purely man-made construct without Biblical support. I find that the ten commandments are clearly included with the rest of the law as a ministration of death that was done away with as they were the only part of the law graven in stone. I think this is a good scripture to medidate upon in relation to this topic.

I praise God that I do not have to try vainly in my own strength to please God by keeping carnal or fleshly ordinances but that I can be made righteous by the blood of Jesus and walk in the Spirit rather than in the flesh. The victory that His sacrifice affords and the relationship and communion that He opened to me are so precious.


 2011/11/22 15:44Profile

Joined: 2008/5/3
Posts: 435


A note to the orignal post: "till heaven and earth pass away" - Please let us know if heaven and the earth already passed away.

I think you are completely right ginnyrose,

that is the exact problem of our time. What it has led to is that there is another spirit that is not accountable to the word of God anymore. Because some people that start their walk without repentance and are declared "saved" without ever having any evidence that they are truly on the way of salvation. Some have religious spirits that make them think it's the Holy Spirit - but there is no true biblical evidence whatsover, and they are the whole reason why the so-called end times come upon us.

Someone reasoned that "more grace" is the solution to vow a proud person that is not "born to follow, anybody including God" to have their hearts melted and become a Christian. But this does not work, they first have to acknowledge that they are sinners. Unrepentant sinners cannot be won by adding grace to their fallen state and declared righteous. Wesley called that casting pearls before swine.

In this regard someone proud, or even "most proud" as per Jeremiah definition, cannot be come to Jesus without the law. Once you declare the law has ended, you take away the possibility that these people can be saved.

Many people misunderstand Paul, and remove the words of Jesus, and end up with a different Jesus and a different spirit, the one that is not holy anymore and misses no opportunity to sin, and always promotes the idea that sin is not a reason one keeps out the "saved" from the kingdom of God. And that is the biggest lie Satan ever pulled off, declaring from the beginning his thesis of "You shall not surely die" when we are disobeying God. Paul says again and again, "be not deceived" about that. Even in Galatians that many use to say the law has ended, he preaches the consequences of breaking it:

Galatians 5:16  This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

22  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23  Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

The whole point of Galatians is the rightheousness that comes by faith, not by the law. Some misunderstand that to indicate we will not be judged . And that is a terrible lie. Only Satan teaches that "do what you want shall be the only law". Paul teaches that "they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." Just like all the other apostles, and also Jesus.

If we don't know what commandments are written on our hearts, we can declare it could be "anything" and we can make up our own definitions of what it means to walk in the Spirit. Where there is no definition, there is no accountability. And no conformity with the Father and the son Jesus Christ.

To misunderstand Paul in a way that is different to the last words of the resurrected Jesus that will be our final and ONLY judge is not a recommended idea, but we are free to believe and choose what we think is the final word. Here the final words of Jesus to John, confirming Paul:

Revelation 22:12  And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

 2011/11/22 20:31Profile

Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 835
Alberta, Canada

 Re: Till All Things Come to Be

Very good word, Alan.

All things under the law had not yet come into being. Under the law, they consisted only in the form of types and shadows.

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ" (Col. 2.16,17).

The Body, the substance, the reality that cast the shadow, is CHRIST. So why should we continue to walk in the shadows? Let us walk in the Light.

For example... under the law, the passover had not yet come into being. Under the law, the passover was only observed in its shadow form. Christ fulfilled the law when He became our Passover (1 Cor. 5.7).

Under the law, Pentecost had not yet come into being. Pentecost was only observed in its shadow form under the law. But when the ascended Christ poured out the Holy Spirit upon the waiting disciples (Acts Ch. 2), Pentecost came into being, Pentecost was fulfilled.

The same with the Atonement-- part of the feast of tabernacles. The atonement was only observed in its shadow form under the Law. But when Christ died on Calvary, He fulfilled the Atonement; the Atonement came into being (Rom. 3.24).

...And so on. Not one jot or tittle of the law shall pass away. All shall be fulfilled.

The same goes for the ten commandments themselves. They are fulfilled in Christ-- and on a much higher plane, actually.

"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery. But I say unto thee, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart" (Mt. 5.28).

This commandment fulfills the Law... when Christ the mediator of the New Covenant writes it in our hearts and minds-- not on tables of stone.

...The same with the Sabbath. It is fulfilled in Christ, it came into being in Christ.

What cause for rejoicing this is! I find it sad, these ones who continue to insist that we must keep the Law in its shadow form. How I wish "the lightbulb" would go on for them! But having participated in "discussions" over this in the past, I am aware that this seems to be a very difficult challenge for certain ones.

I, for one, will not be persuaded to go back into the shadows now that the True Light shineth.


Allan Halton

 2011/11/23 0:43Profile

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