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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Children who die in infancy?

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 Re:

Thanks ginnyrose, it makes perfect sense and it is good to hear from someone else who worked in pro-life ministry. I did come to that conclusion myself but wondered what others thought about the matter. I have a list of things in which all I can do is trust but none of them without some serious searching first. Some have left me with a deeper faith from finding answers and the rest, a deeper faith from not.

 2011/11/19 4:46
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7512
Mississippi

 Re:

QUOTE:
" good to hear from someone else who worked in pro-life ministry"

You work in a pro-life ministry as well? I did for many years and learned more there then you ever could reading a book! If you work in one, what is your take on your experience there?


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2011/11/19 6:42Profile









 Re:

It was many years ago and I helped at LIFE to support the young women who came to stay in one of the houses until they had their babies. One case really stood out - a young Buddhist woman who decided to have her baby, the result of a rape and give it up for adoption She was such a lovely caring person. The others kept their babies once they received support. I came to see how much pressure the girls were under to abort. What was your involvement?

Brenda

 2011/11/19 6:54
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7512
Mississippi

 Re:

QUOTE:
"What was your involvement?"

I worked as a counselor. Included in this job was pregnancy testing.

We talked with the females trying to find out where they were spiritually and take it from there. This was all part of our total counsel. I used to say I heard every story of human depravity known to man and imagination. I got to the point where I no longer was shocked at anything, but still could get mad. I valued this ability, believing that once sin no longer bothered me, I was all done for. I thank the LORD he has kept me from becoming calloused to sin.

We did chastity counseling in addition to helping the ladies who are in a crises pregnancy. If they were abortion minded we worked to get them to understand why this is the wrong option, based upon the WORD which life experiences supported.

Likely among the worst ideas we faced was when a female was pregnant and she did not want this child. She knew it was sin to abort, she knew God would help her through it all, but she still chose to abort, firmly believing God will forgive her after doing so! She believed that after she had the abortion she will come back to God, ask for his forgiveness and he will forgive her!

It is my opinion - and I have never met another female who shared it - but I fervently believe that if a single conceives, the child should be put up for adoption because the child deserves a mama and a daddy. Parenting is tough as it is and moms need a husband in the home to assist. It is rare that a single will choose to adopt out. Culturally it no longer is a disgrace for a single to have a baby out of wedlock. Some will plan it, as well - the gov will pay for the hospital expenses and they can get gov assistance to live...

The situations you encountered there made one feel like you were standing on hell's rim where you are working to keep people from running headlong into it, but very few are paying you any mind to your warnings and pleas...

We also shared clothes, etc. with needy clients.

Working there, counseling these ladies, and a few men, one gains a sense of the absoluteness of the WORD. There is absolutely no room for any ambivalent theology or doctrine!

This is the essence of what we did.

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2011/11/20 19:27Profile









 Re:

Thanks for that reply ginnyrose. Our counsellors were unable to do the things you mentioned, religion was not to be spoken about unless in reply to a specific question and not in a personal way which was the result of the organisation being multi denominational with liberal influence in a secular society but a counsellor told me that these rules were broken. I dont agree with this. I was not able to devote that amount of time anyway so only helped for a short time but it really made me think about a lot of issues.

I agree with you that the best thing for the child would be adoption for the reason you state.

I also agree with you about there being no room for ambivalent theology. It is quite amazing to hear about the freedoms one has in a society which is not as secular as the UK.

 2011/11/23 5:57
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7512
Mississippi

 Re:

The CPC I worked for was started in the aftermath of roe v wade (the Supreme Court ruling that made abortion legal) by evangelical leaders like Francis Shaeffer, Harold O.J. Brown, Billy Graham, Everett Koop. This may explain why we were instructed to be evangelistic. (I was hired in 24 years ago - am not sure where it is today.)

Since this time I checked into the VORP program. VORP- victims-offenders-reconciliation-program. They work to bring reconciliation between the victims of crime and the perpetrators. It sounded wonderful. "Christianity Today" magazine did a feature on them quite a few years ago. I checked into it and then my enthusiasm dropped: they were not evangelistic at all. The lady I talked to did not see the gospel as a method to bring about peace between hurting people. Or, maybe, it was just the lady I talked to.

To enhance my knowledge at CPC I attended a workshop for rape victims' support personal sponsored by the Salvation Army. This workshop trained people to come alongside victims when they went to the hospital to offer them support. Brenda, I felt I did not belong there. There was something sinister there - I do know know how else to explain it other then that the Holy Spirit just was not there motivating the speaker or the girls. They all looked so sad and beaten, without hope. Once again, the gospel was not foremost in their minds at all - it was all psychology. I would guess Catherine Booth would roll around in her grave if she knew this!

I can imagine you learned a lot just by being there and observing. Too bad you were not allowed to speak for the LORD - we were required to do so! We were to be aggressive! Good lesson, too!

Society is sin-ridden - that is for certain!


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2011/11/23 7:21Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7512
Mississippi

 Re:

QUOTE:
"The CPC I worked for was started in the aftermath of roe v wade (the Supreme Court ruling that made abortion legal) by evangelical leaders like Francis Shaeffer, Harold O.J. Brown, Billy Graham, Everett Koop."

Just thought I should clarify this statement. These men formed what was known as the Christian Action Council. The CPC was the practical outgrowth of this ministry.


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2011/11/23 9:44Profile









 Re:

I am at present reading a book written in 1896, and it says that 50% of mankind die before they reach their first birthday. Maybe it was higher than that in the past and will most likely be more so in 3rd world countries like Africa. Abortion has greatly increased the rates in modern times. It made me think that heaven will possibly be outnumbered by those who never got beyond that age when you consider how few men are saved. So how do certain verses fit in with this, as a company in heaven who were not cleansed by the blood because they never needed it etc. A company whom the angels do not envy and a compnay who did not get the chance of spiritual growth through suffering. I am not having doubts but just looking at the scriptures again with interest through this lens. I have done this in the past and came to some glorious truth which I did not apprehend previously.


edit - forgot to mention miscarriage. I dont know the percentage of births which end prematurely. I heard 1 in 10 but of course it will be higher in certain conditions like starvation.

 2011/11/25 6:43





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