As I was reading some Psalms this morning I had a thought that needs some checking :)I found words where David describes his plea for help and how God heard him from His Temple. The thought was this: If God heard David from His Temple, David's Faith in God hearing is what broke through. His absolute abandon and trust in God. (Now this is the thought I questioned or at least have never thought before or realized) David is saying all of these things before Christ died making the Way for such a transaction. Unless of course that Christ death did indeed open the veil past, present, and future making such a statement possible.What are your thoughts on this? Is is mumbo jumbo or does it make sense? I am asking with all sincerity and really don't wish to stir up strife and if this topic does stir strife then I would ask the thread be locked. God Bless,Matthew
_________________Matthew Guldner
First thing I would ask is "why would God not hear and answer Davids' prayers ?" . Did not grace and faith exist since the beginning of God talking with man? First mention of grace goes back to Noah. Genesis 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.Maybe we can look at a few psalms you spoke of, where we can find further hints or clues regarding the nature of David's relationship with God.
I think you have hit on some very important points that are oft neglected and misunderstood. You pointed out how David regarding penetrating the veil of the Temple. It would be worth adding that the Temple was not yet built during David's lifetime, that happened during the reign of Solomon. However, the Lord did give David the blueprint and instructions about what to collect. The Lord opened many things to prophets like David, things well ahead of their time because they were given from Eternity where God dwells. It is worthwhile to note that Peter instructs us that Christ Jesus was slain before the foundation of the earth. This means that though it had not yet taken place in history, because it was the will of God, it was as though it had already happened. Personally, I find this concept easy to comprehend and apply abstractly but often times find myself at odds with it on a moment by moment basis.
I am refering to Psalms 18, Psalms 61, and any and everywhere where we see God hearing and God responding in scripture, I found its not just in the Psalms but throughout the Old Testament with the Patriarchs, the Prophets, etc. If the veil was truly blocking the relationship between God and man then Christ sacrifice would have to have been an eternal sacrifice. Please note this doesn't take away from the sacrifice of Christ but adds to its importance and power.
I see what you mean, it's a bit of a mind bender because these psalms reads partly as prophetic but at the same as a real time prayer applicable back then, and no doubt today as well. As if time was not really a hindrance to David, present and future exist simultaneously. Or Jesus and the Father are really one. Reminds me of someone else that brings several tenses into one sentence and explains at the same time why he does it: Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.Now if Jesus is also called 'The everlasting Father' we could say David was praying to Jesus, pre-incarnate. But the question remains 'based on what qualification' did he receive answers? In the same way I would be interested to know in why Noah did find grace in God's eyes. Anything they said or did, or simply have been heart response tested and chosen? David never mentions anything veil related either way, but does mention God's presence: Psalms 16:11 Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.Psalms 17:2 Let my sentence come forth from thy presence; let thine eyes behold the things that are equal.Psalms 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.Psalms 139:7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
Exactly! :) It seems the Old Testament men of faith knew something of the New Covenant that even today we find hard to grasp. Entering God's presence was something of an everyday occurance for them and when it wasn't they felt the need to seek God even harder which is why we get Psalms like 51:11 where the Spirit of the Lord seems to be withdrawn. Interesting to say the least.
Entering God's presence was something of an everyday occurance for them and when it wasn't they felt the need to seek God even harder which is why we get Psalms like 51:11 where the Spirit of the Lord seems to be withdrawn. Interesting to say the least.Amen...Christ and David said this...Psa 40:6 Sacrifice and offering You did not desire; My ears You have opened. Burnt offering and sin offering You did not require. Psa 40:7 Then I said, "Behold, I come; In the scroll of the book [it is] written of me. Psa 40:8 I delight to do Your will, O my God, And Your law [is] within my heart." All things whether in heaven or on earth exist because of Christ.
_________________Jeff Marshalek
