We are here on this Earth in the flesh, but we will ascend into the heavenlies in a glorified body, and sit on the very Throne of God Himself, even as it is written in Revelation 3:21 that we should.

Even the Apostle John did not know what we would become...think about that one.

Did the Apostle John not write to us and say: Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed WHAT we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we SHALL BE like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 1 John 3:2

And John was with Jesus on the mount of transfiguration and saw Jesus glorified...but he says what we are to become has not yet been revealed.

You see, what satan tried to steal away from God, God freely gives to us His elect saints, and this truly drives him insanely mad with such vile loathe and putrid hatred/vitriol.

And to which of these angels did God ever say “sit on my throne”?

... but The Lord Jesus tells us if we overcome the world, we will sit on His throne even as He overcame and is sat down on His Fathers throne.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%203:21&version=NKJV

The throne of God is in Heaven.

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David

Quote:

"""So in other words what we have today... we dont know if we can trust it because it may not be accurate?"""

So, ask the Holy Spirit to confirm truth.

He will give us all truth, even truth we don't understand, and make it understandable.

In Christ: Phillip

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Phillip

"So in other words what we have today... we dont know if we can trust it because it may not be accurate?"

If the translations were inerrant we could just throw away the Greek Hebrew and Aramaic scriptures because what would be the use?

"The throne of God is in Heaven."

Yeah it's in heaven NOW. Scriptures are clear, we will be ruling with Christ on earth for the millennium AND THEN WHAT?

"I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God..." (Rev. 21:2)

And:

"And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it." (Rev 21:22)

So God will dwell on earth.

No heavenly abode required for the saints to sit on the throne of God.

Well, that's good then. So can you see yet, that the Saints in Rev 6 & 7 are in Heaven and not asleep?

Your Verse - "And I saw **no temple therein**: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it." (Rev 21:22)


Those in chpt 7 - Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His *TEMPLE*: and He that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

Remember that this is during the 6th Seal and the 7th Seal brings about the 7 angels with the Trumpets and at the last/7th Trump we're given our glorified bodies / resurrected.


I don't know why I'm on this thread :) This belief of yours won't keep you Out of Heaven. Normally, only things that are a salvation-issue or salvation-threateners get my interest up.


I wanted to bring this one thing up - to quote you ...

"Well, that's good then. So can you see yet, that the Saints in Rev 6 & 7 are in Heaven and not asleep?"

No, I still don't think you're right.

"Your Verse - "And I saw **no temple therein**: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it." (Rev 21:22)"

I interpret this verse as referring to the post-millennium service of the saints, where there is no temple.

"Those in chpt 7 - Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His *TEMPLE*: and He that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them."

I believe this verse refers to the saints' service in the third temple, described in Ezekiel and yet to be built, during the millennium.


"2Kings 2:11 - Elijah taken to Heaven."

Again, there are 3 heavens and it was impossible for anyone to go to heaven before Christ was risen (John 3:13).

"Eph 3:14,15 - Whole family in Heaven."

I don't think it's far fetched to say this refers to the angels (family in heaven) and men (family on earth).

"Luke 16:19-31 - A place of consciousness."

This is a parable - the purpose of which is to teach a lesson. If you assume the characters in this parable are real, you must also assume the characters in every parable are real from the wedding virgins to the vineyard owner.

The story's purpose is not to provide a literal description of what happens immediately after death, but as a lesson to the Israelites (rich man) of their fate for rejecting the covenant and God's adoption of the Gentiles (Lazarus, whose name means "he whom God helps").

Jesus-is-GOD you stated you believe we are disembodied spirits before the second coming of Christ either in heaven or hell (if my understanding of what you said is correct).
If this is true, why would the rich man need to lift up his EYES (Luke 16:23) or need water on his TONGUE (16:24). Why would Lazarus have a FINGER to dip in cool water?

Do we have spirit eyes, tongues and fingers?


Thanks for challenging me. I hope you don't think I'm hard headed for not agreeing with your interpretation of scriptures.

Njhoover I love making it simple and short. My stand is on this: I'll rather be absent from the body and present with the Lord. I guess yours will be to be absent from the body and sleeping in the dust waiting His return. Stephen saw something. When he was about to leave his body, he saw where he was headed and he prayed Christ to receive his spirit. Christ stood to do just that. I guess you don't sit to welcome relatives when they come visiting. You sit when the person is not welcomed. John saw the visions of heaven. It was one of the brethren, departed faithful soul that carried him about in heaven and even rebuked him when he tried to worship him. Maybe that was HOSEA or Isaiah or Zacharias. And don't bother about what the greek says, this brother that took John around in heaven will surely be one of the Saints coming wit Christ to rule. Love you. Thats my stand beloved.

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Blessing

If the Spirit of Christ is in us and is joined to our soul by the promised Holy Spirit, when we die does the spirit of Christ die and the Holy Spirit also, for we are His Temple? The body must die for flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God, unless resurrected or it must be changed in the twinkling of an eye, either way we are eternally with the Lord, then and only then in body.

In Christ: Phillip

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Phillip

HezWelling on 2011/11/9 wrote:

"you are in dependence of Him....or not."

I am dependent on Him.

"you either fear Him in love and reverential awe......or not."

I have reverential awe toward God, but I do not fear God, for love cast out all fear. I love Him and He me.

1 JOHn 4:15-5:1
Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world. THERE IS NO FEAR IN LOVE, BUT PERFECT LOVE CASTE OUT FEAR, BECAUSE FEAR INVOLVES PUNISHMENT, AND THE ONE WHO FEARS IS NOT PERFECTED IN LOVE. We love, because He first loved us. If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also. (NASU)


HezWelling WROTE: "either you know that the Blood of Jesus cleanses all sin....or not."

Yes, Jesus atoning blood has cleansed me of all my sins for all time.


HezWelling WROTE: "either God the Holy Ghost has released you from the bonds of death, that is the fear of death, the grip of it..............or not."

Yes, the Holy Spirit has released me from the bonds of death. And to Make this part clear, I reference Ephesians 4-12

4. He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him.

God knew us, and chose us, before He created the foundation of the world [cosmos], that we would be Holy and Blameless before Him

5. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,

We were predestined to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to His kind will.

6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.

And this God freely bestowed upon us in Jesus.

7. In HIM we have REDEMPTION THROUGH HIS BLOOD, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace

In Jesus we have redemption through His Blood, the forgiveness of our sins, by His rich graces we are redeemed

8 which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight

It's a gift to us, well planned out before time.

9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him,

He revealed this truth of his kind intention through Jesus Christ

10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth.

According to God's timing and plan etc.

11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,

We Have Obtained an inheritance, as predestined according to God's will, work, and purpose

12 to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory.

The early Christians receiving the fulfillment of the above plans of God first.

13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation — having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise

We listened to the message of truth (gospel), and we (Christians) believed Jesus's message, we were sealed in Jesus with the Holy Spirit that Jesus promised (the indwelling Paraclete, God in me).

14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.

The Holy Spirit in us is Jesus pledge (i.e. Security down payment) of our inheritance until (the time of) the full ransom of Jesus's acquisition of us unto the praise of His glory.

Here is a more literal translation of Eph 1:14

"[from verse 13 - our being sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise = which in verse 14] is the pledge (from the Greek meaning - part of the purchase property given in advance as security for the rest) of our inheritance until the redemption of the acquisition.

Jesus paid the price for us on the cross, He sealed us as His possession by giving us the indwelling Holy Spirit, and He will give us our great inheritance when He redeems His acquisition of us at His 2nd coming.

Which means; We are already saved, sealed by the indwelling Holy Spirit, God in each Christian and our Helper and advocate, we are heaven bound, and none can take us from Jesus hand. We have already obtained rights to entering into the Kingdom when Jesus returns for us, and He will bring us into the Kingdom. God created the Kingdom at the same time He created the Cosmos. He sent us into the Cosmos to purify and refine us to do the good that HE desires us to do, and He predestined us to enter the Kingdom.

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Arthur Biele