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Discussion Forum : General Topics : The High Benefit of Christian Submission

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roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re:

Undeniably, God blinds and hardens as an effect of divine judgment. Now we have another image that conveys the same idea: stones in the heart. Even here we cannot attribute the stones merely to the devil:


“He has barred my way with blocks of STONE” Lamentations 3:9 In other words, God has made himself inaccessible to his chosen people through divine judgment. It is an all-and-out blackout: “He shuts out my prayer.” :8

Isaiah says the same thing:

“He will be a holy place;
for both Israel and Judah
he will be a STONE that causes people to stumble
and a ROCK that makes them fall.
And for the people of Jerusalem
he will be a trap and a snare.” Isaiah 8:14

God did it! Paul quotes from this verse in Romans 9:33
“See I lay in Zion a STONE that causes me to stumble
And a ROCK that makes them fall”

How is Christ a stumbling stone? I think we could apply the references to divine blinding/hardening, and so forth. After all, when you can’t see, you will stumble and fall – even over the One who has come to heal your sight. And now you resist him.

In recent days I have had various conversations in which it seemed that the way was nearly clear to speak precisely and deliberately about God. Yet at that very moment I would be silent. Then I'd kick myself for missing “opportunities”. It didn’t seem like an issue of fear; yet I knew I could have been wrong. So I asked God what was going on? He answered me: “Their hearts are hard.”

And I then realized that it was God who was silencing me. To be sure, these people had no interest in my God. Even when I mentioned “God”, I would receive a hasty explanation of their version of God - the “god” they had obviously put their faith in. What I was doing was actually helping them to reinforce their unbelief and feel even more righteous about it. They were hardening themselves even further. It's true that if someone does not want God, even our best message merely falls on stony ground.

God was reminding me that in presenting his truths, I am to be submitted to his timing. There is a time to be silent, and wait for him. That reminds me of a comment Art Katz made about the mess evangelicals have made in their evangelizing efforts – because they are doing it in their own steam, and not waiting on God. When it comes to stony hearts, we can’t play God and attempt amateur surgery. We cannot short-circuit God’s program of mercy:

“it does not therefore depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.” Romans 9:16


Both believer and unbeliever are utterly dependent on God’s mercy. Meanwhile our most potent proof of God’s loving mercy is a life consistently submitted to Christ and to one another in love - lived out through our every day relationships. And our job is to deal with our own “stones”. (A nicer way of saying: Mind your own business.)


“Pass through, pass through the gates!
Prepare the way for the people.
Build up, build up the highway!
Remove the STONES.
Isaiah 62:10


“Sow to yourselves in righteousness,
reap in mercy;
break up your fallow ground:
for it is time to seek the LORD,
till he come and rain righteousness upon you.”
Hosea 10:12 KJV

Diane


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Diane

 2012/5/4 10:41Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: On the "Highway" to Authentic Submission

It seems time to regroup my thoughts on this theme of godly submission. I do so in light of the following words by Charles Finney:

“I have not yet been able to stereotype my theological views, and have ceased to expect ever to do so. The idea is proposterous. None but an omniscient mind can continue to maintain a precise identity of views and opinions. Finite minds, unless they are asleep or stultified by prejudice, must advance in knowledge. The discovery of new truth will modify old views and opinions, and there is perhaps no end to this process with finite minds in any world. True Christian consistency does not consist in stereotyping our opinions and views, and in refusing to make any improvement lest we should be guilty of change, but it consists in holding our minds open to receive the rays of truth from every quarter and in changing our views and language and practice as often and as fast, as we can obtain further information.” Charles Finney

With that in mind, I would say that my reflection on godly submission has dislodged a number of “old views and opinions” – those which hinder the full blossoming of this beautiful, fragrant character quality. Note, I say “character quality” rather than “law” – because authentic godly submission is the outcome of the Spirit’s work rather than a “rules” mentality. Authentic godly submission will not grow and flourish when we have a habit of applying the Bible verses with a “rules” mentality. Godly submission is a character quality, and in that sense, it is a law of the Spirit just as much as a flower’s qualities are the effects of the laws of nature. Trying harder will never produce in you or me a more submissive quality of character.

“The mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace.” Rom. 8:6
“The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control” Gal. 6:22 This surely encapsulates the qualities of a submissive character.


To ponder further: What faulty mentalities ("stones") has God been exposing, even through this thread topic, so that you and I may become freer to grow in this character quality of godly submission toward one another?

Diane




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Diane

 2012/5/22 7:50Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: Our Moral Obligations to One Another

Quote:
True Christian consistency does not consist in stereotyping our opinions and views, and in refusing to make any improvement lest we should be guilty of change, but it consists in holding our minds open to receive the rays of truth from every quarter and in changing our views and language and practice as often and as fast, as we can obtain further information.” Charles Finney




I return to Finney's exhortation – and I see it pointing us back to this thread theme: our moral obligations to one another.

As I ponder over how we talk to each other - what we say and what we do NOT say - I keep seeing our collective blind spot: a deficiency in our sense of moral obligation to one another. Is that not true even for our recent themes – like “doom and gloom”? Wouldn’t you agree that we have a difficult time relating our themes to our moral calling?

In the matters of societal trouble and disaster, I watch folk (including my husband) involved in planning strategies for helping victims. Yet amongst ourselves, in our Christian talk, we seem quite preoccupied about preserving our personal righteousness and, as Finney says, “stereotyping our opinions and views”. Well … that’s my broad sweeping perception, and I include myself. But that’s not what Christianity is mostly about (remember that token “cup of water” offered to the thirsty).

We know that our calling is to love real people - those who are in our lives (that is, our neighbor) by aiming to advance their well being. We are called to stir one another as believers to love and good deeds - which, as I discussed a few pages back, involve our offerings of goodness to one another. If we can't do this well for each other, how can we expect to do it well for the "heathen"?


The challenge, as I see it, is this: How can I move beyond my self-focused brand of faith. It’s not just about me! How can I obey the calling, “FEED MY SHEEP?” In other words, how do I offer myself in submission to others – that they may be nurtured with the Living Bread?

Looking over the “fields” of our own society, it is obvious that “the harvest is plentiful”. Yet the workers are few! I wonder: What paradigm shift in thinking is required to bump us Christians out of our culturally shaped individualistic view of Christianity?

We call on God to nudge us beyond our own conceptual paradigms and awaken our collective moral consciousness on these matters. He can do it! PTL!

Diane


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Diane

 2012/6/23 7:47Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re:

I can’t resist pasting the following quote taken from an ongoing thread (“Legalism”) This is most insightful. It says what I’m thinking – but more succinctly:

Quote:
…. however our problem today is we do not know what true love is anymore . We believe it is similar to some type of affection that does not include being subject to a higher authority. Basically we are self-sufficient, and would never give up our own understanding, which is the part in us that terms the word 'legalism'….
By a-servant




In other words, to the extent that we fail to love each other as God requires, and to the extent that we sense no moral guilt over it, we are legalists: Our conscience is abiding according to our own law-code. We are our highest authority.

Is this not reflective of harden-ness in our hearts (dulling of conscience)?


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Diane

 2012/6/23 8:54Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: The Forgiving Live: the way of Christian submission

I cannot rejoin the forum at this time, however, I stop by momentarily. This thread was brought to mind through an email dialogue. Also, presently I am working on the theme of forgiveness – preparing a Bible study series. It is apparent to me that Christian submission is essentially synonymous with forgiveness. It’s about the way we treat sinners - even our “enemy”. (Remember, forgiveness is not the same as absolving.)

Jonah was not a forgiving kind of person as is evident in his attitude towards the Ninevites. He lacked the heart of God. God pointed that out to him saying, “Should I not be concerned about this great city.” Jonah had been more concerned about himself, and he would have rather seen all of the Assyrians rot in hell, then to and live among them, with empathy for their lostness (“They cannot tell their right hand from their left”).

Jonah chose to live outside the city – separate from the people – far away from any tedious involvement in their lives, far away from the opportunity to extend practical acts of mercy to the people -ie, submit to them.

But note, God continued to have mercy on Jonah (the fish, the vine...) God used Jonah to be an instrument of divine mercy, nevertheless. What does that imply about our own attitude towards the Jonah's around us (or in us)?


It’s natural to be like Jonah – stand far off from a person or a people group and talk about them with words of condemnation and judgment – as if we are better than them. And we have little empathy for them. We’d rather extricate ourselves from them and not put ourselves in a position where we can understand them, have compassion, or offer them the gifts of grace and goodness.

When we consider the harmful effects which unforgiveness has on our physical and emotional well-being – like anger, bitterness, health problems, etc we can see that forgiveness is essentially synonymous with loving yourself - as in the Great Commandment to love God and your neighbor as yourself.

By being a forgiving person we love ourself as one made in the image of God, forgiven and loved by him, and destined for a high calling: to advance the kingdom of God. When we are forgiving people - free from resentment, filled with humility and empathy - we are available to share the nature of God - to give of ourselves unreservedly as an agent of God’s mercy in a fallen world.

Through forgiveness we open the way for others, as well as ourselves, to be reconciled with God. It is the way we advance the Kingdom of God in a sinful world.

“Thy kingdom come…. Forgive our debts as we forgive our debtors”.

Examples of forgiving (merciful) people:
King David (see Ps. 51), The Apostle Paul (compare him with Jonah during their sea storm experiences) , The Good Samaritan, etc. Joseph, son of Jacob…
These people knew the meaning of Christian submission.

God bless you all, and may he work in you to make you instruments of his mercy, ministers of reconciliation through your life of humble submission.

Diane


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Diane

 2013/1/18 9:50Profile





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