| Poster | Thread |
| | Re: | | Being a baptist doesnt get you into heaven. Being a Catholic doesnt send you to hell.
Having said that... if a person is trusting in the Catholic Church for their salvation, then they are not saved. To be a true Catholic, you must believe and submit to the teachings of the Catholic Church, which teaches that you are saved thru the Catholic Church.
This is unscriptural.
Can a Catholic be saved? Certainly. They have a bible, albeit a corrupt one, but I can take the Jerusalem Bible and lead someone to the Lord with it. Once they come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ... they are saved. However, at that point, God will begin to call them out of the Catholic Church and be holy unto Him. I do not believe a Catholic can be truly saved and remain in the RCC. We can not be unequally yoked together with darkness... and that would be exactly what that is. You can not submit to the teachings of the Bible, and submit to the teachings of the RCC at the same time. A simple examination of the Counsel of Trent, and Vatican II will bear that out to anyone who wants to take the time. No man can serve two masters.
If a Catholic says they are not trusting in the RCC for their salvation, then they do not understand the teachings of the RCC and are at odds the RCC.
And dont think for a minute that a saved Catholic can stay in their parish with the intended goal of "making a difference". We're not called to do that when it comes to issues of doctrine and religion. We are called to mark and avoid false teachers. Emphasis on [b]avoid[/b]. We are commanded to do that for our own spiritual safety. Just like we are not called to join a JW church or a Mormon church in order to have a positive influence on them. We are to stay away from false religions. Seduction will happen if we disregard scripture on this point. It's ok to be selfish when it comes to our own spirituality.
Krispy |
|  2005/4/6 10:02 | | Jbat001
Member
Joined: 2005/4/5
Posts: 3
| | Re: | | Agreed - mostly.
Quote:
KrispyKrittr wrote:
Having said that... if a person is trusting in the Catholic Church for their salvation, then they are not saved. To be a true Catholic, you must believe and submit to the teachings of the Catholic Church, which teaches that you are saved thru the Catholic Church.
The key thing is to understand the meaning of the word Catholic - 'universal'. The Catholic Church does not teach that if you're not a baptised card-carrying RC that you cannot enter heaven. It teaches that if you are not a member of the 'church invisible' (catholic/universal) you will not enter heaven, and this is fair enough. It prevents proud man from ruling any particular group or person out. Personally, if Adolf Hitler welcomed me in to heaven, it would say much more about the mercy of God than the sins of Hitler.
And this is the key. Ultimately, God sees and knows all, and will judge us by our hearts, not the badges we wear. It is acceotance of the wonderful marvel of Jesus death and resurrection that we are saved, but God can still save whoever he likes with absolute discretion, because he is right by default. Like Job, you can't argue with God over what you think is right or wrong, you just have to accept His judgement, which I am happy to do.
I personally believe in the direct authority of the Petrine succession, but I have not one whit less love and respect for my brothers who question this, and I am made richer by their questioning my faith......
Thankyou all, for your kind welcome too! |
| | 2005/4/6 14:48 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Quote:
The key thing is to understand the meaning of the word Catholic - 'universal'. The Catholic Church does not teach that if you're not a baptised card-carrying RC that you cannot enter heaven. It teaches that if you are not a member of the 'church invisible' (catholic/universal) you will not enter heaven, and this is fair enough. It prevents proud man from ruling any particular group or person out. Personally, if Adolf Hitler welcomed me in to heaven, it would say much more about the mercy of God than the sins of Hitler.
And this is the key. Ultimately, God sees and knows all, and will judge us by our hearts, not the badges we wear. It is acceotance of the wonderful marvel of Jesus death and resurrection that we are saved, but God can still save whoever he likes with absolute discretion, because he is right by default. Like Job, you can't argue with God over what you think is right or wrong, you just have to accept His judgement, which I am happy to do.
I personally believe in the direct authority of the Petrine succession, but I have not one whit less love and respect for my brothers who question this, and I am made richer by their questioning my faith......
Thankyou all, for your kind welcome too!
By the way... welcome to the site... prepare to be challenged! (But dont take it personally!)
What I've quoted from your post doesnt seem to jive with the anathemas of the Counsel of Trent. Care to address that?
Krispy |
| | 2005/4/6 17:06 | | CJaKfOrEsT
Member
Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia
| | Re: Are all Catholics going to hell? | | There are probably as many prodestants who are going to hell as catholics. If not more.
_________________
Aaron Ireland
|
| | 2005/4/6 18:47 | Profile | Jbat001
Member
Joined: 2005/4/5
Posts: 3
| | Re: | | Which anathemas are you referring to? |
| | 2005/4/10 12:31 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Quote:
Which anathemas are you referring to?
These...
FOURTH SESSION: DECREE CONCERNING THE CANONICAL SCRIPTURES: "If anyone does not accept as sacred and canonical the aforesaid books in their entirety and with all their parts [the 66 books of the Bible plus 12 apocryphal books, being two of Paralipomenon, two of Esdras, Tobias, Judith, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, Baruch, Sophonias, two of Macabees], as they have been accustomed to be read in the Catholic Church and as they are contained in the old Latin Vulgate Edition, and knowingly and deliberately rejects the aforesaid traditions, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA."
SIXTH SESSION, CANONS CONCERNING JUSTIFICATION: "If anyone says that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in divine mercy, which remits sins for Christ's sake, or that it is this confidence alone that justifies us, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" (Canons Concerning Justification, Canon 12).
SIXTH SESSION, CANONS CONCERNING JUSTIFICATION: "If anyone says that the justice received is not preserved and also not increased before God through good works, but that those works are merely the fruits and signs of justification obtained, but not the cause of its increase, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" (Canons Concerning Justification, Canon 24).
SIXTH SESSION, CANONS CONCERNING JUSTIFICATION: "If anyone says that the Catholic doctrine of justification as set forth by the holy council in the present decree, derogates in some respect from the glory of God or the merits of our Lord Jesus Christ, and does not rather illustrate the truth of our faith and no less the glory of God and of Christ Jesus, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" (Canons Concerning Justification, Canon 33).
SEVENTH SESSION, CANONS ON BAPTISM: "If anyone says that in the Roman Church, which is the mother and mistress of all churches, there is not the true doctrine concerning the sacrament of baptism, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" (Canons on Baptism, Canon 3).
SEVENTH SESSION, CANONS ON BAPTISM: "If anyone says that baptism is optional, that is, not necessary for salvation, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" (Canons on Baptism, Canon 5).
SEVENTH SESSION, CANONS ON BAPTISM: "If anyone says that children, because they have not the act of believing, are not after having received baptism to be numbered among the faithful, and that for this reason are to be rebaptized when they have reached the years of discretion; or that it is better that the baptism of such be omitted than that, while not believing by their own act, they should be baptized in the faith of the Church alone, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" (Canons on Baptism, Canon 13).
SEVENTH SESSION, CANONS ON CONFIRMATON: "If anyone says that the confirmation of those baptized is an empty ceremony and not a true and proper sacrament; or that of old it was nothing more than a sort of instruction, whereby those approaching adolescence gave an account of their faith to the Church, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" (Canons on Confirmation, Canon 1).
THIRTEENTH SESSION, CANONS ON THE MOST HOLY SACRAMENT OF THE EUCHARIST: "If anyone denies that in the sacrament of the most Holy Eucharist are contained truly, really and substantially the body and blood together with the soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and consequently the whole Christ, but says that He is in it only as in a sign, or figure or force, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" (Canons on the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist, Canon 1).
THIRTEENTH SESSION, CANONS ON THE MOST HOLY SACRAMENT OF THE EUCHARIST: "If anyone says that Christ received in the Eucharist is received spiritually only and not also sacramentally and really, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" (Canons on the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist, Canon 8).
FOURTEENTH SESSION, CANONS CONCERNING THE MOST HOLY SACRAMENT OF PENANCE: "If anyone says that in the Catholic Church penance is not truly and properly a sacrament instituted by Christ the Lord for reconciling the faithful of God as often as they fall into sin after baptism, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" (Canons Concerning the Most Holy Sacrament of Penance, Canon 1).
FOURTEENTH SESSION, CANONS CONCERNING THE MOST HOLY SACRAMENT OF PENANCE: "If anyone denies that sacramental confession was instituted by divine law or is necessary to salvation; or says that the manner of confessing secretly to a priest alone, which the Catholic Church has always observed from the beginning and still observes, is at variance with the institution and command of Christ and is a human contrivance, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" (Canons Concerning the Most Holy Sacrament of Penance, Canon 7).
FOURTEENTH SESSION, CANONS CONCERNING THE MOST HOLY SACRAMENT OF PENANCE: "If anyone says that the confession of all sins as it is observed in the Church is impossible and is a human tradition to be abolished by pious people; or that each and all of the faithful of Christ or either sex are not bound thereto once a year in accordance with the constitution of the great Lateran Council, and that for this reason the faithful of Christ are to be persuaded not to confess during Lent, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" (Canons Concerning the Most Holy Sacrament of Penance, Canon 8).
FOURTEENTH SESSION, CANONS CONCERNING THE MOST HOLY SACRAMENT OF PENANCE: "If anyone says that God always pardons the whole penalty together with the guilt and that the satisfaction of penitents is nothing else than the faith by which they perceive that Christ has satisfied for them, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" (Canons Concerning the Most Holy Sacrament of Penance, Canon 8).
TWENTY-SECOND SESSION, CANONS ON THE SACRIFICE OF THE MASS: "If anyone says that in the mass a true and real sacrifice is not offered to God; or that to be offered is nothing else than that Christ is given to us to eat, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" (Canons on the Sacrifice of the Mass, Canon 1).
TWENTY-SECOND SESSION, CANONS ON THE SACRIFICE OF THE MASS: "If anyone says that by those words, Do this for a commemoration of me, Christ did not institute the Apostles priests; or did not ordain that they and other priests should offer His own body and blood, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" (Canons on the Sacrifice of the Mass, Canon 2).
TWENTY-SECOND SESSION, CANONS ON THE SACRIFICE OF THE MASS: "If anyone says that the sacrifice of the mass is one only of praise and thanksgiving; or that it is a mere commemoration of the sacrifice consummated on the cross but not a propitiatory one; or that it profits him only who receives, and ought not to be offered for the living and the dead, for sins, punishments, satisfactions, and other necessities, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" (Canons on the Sacrifice of the Mass, Canon 3).
TWENTY-SECOND SESSION, CANONS ON THE SACRIFICE OF THE MASS: "If anyone says that it is a deception to celebrate masses in honor of the saints and in order to obtain their intercession with God, as the Church intends, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" (Canons on the Sacrifice of the Mass, Canon 5).
TWENTY-THIRD SESSION, CANONS ON THE SACRAMENT OF ORDER: "If anyone says that there is not in the New Testament a visible and external priesthood, or that there is no power of consecrating and offering the true body and blood of the Lord and of forgiving and retaining sins, but only the office and bare ministry of preaching the Gospel; or that those who do not preach are not priests at all, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" (Canons on the Sacrifice of the Mass, Canon 1).
TWENTY-THIRD SESSION, CANONS ON THE SACRAMENT OF ORDER: "If anyone says that the bishops who are chosen by the authority of the Roman pontiff are not true and legitimate bishops, but merely human deception, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" (Canons on the Sacrifice of the Mass, Canon 8).
TWENTY-FIFTH SESSION, DECREE ON PURGATORY: "Since the Catholic Church, instructed by the Holy Ghost, has, following the sacred writings and the ancient tradition of the Fathers, taught in sacred councils and very recently in this ecumenical council that there is a purgatory, and that the souls there detained are aided by the suffrages of the faithful and chiefly by the acceptable sacrifice of the altar, the holy council commands the bishops that they strive diligently to the end that the sound doctrine of purgatory, transmitted by the Fathers and sacred councils, be believed and maintained by the faithful of Christ, and be everywhere taught and preached."
TWENTY-FIFTH SESSION, ON THE INVOCATION, VENERATION, AND RELICS OF SAINTS, AND ON SACRED IMAGES: "The holy council commands all bishops and others who hold the office of teaching and have charge of the cura animarum, that in accordance with the usage of the Catholic and Apostolic Church, received from the primitive times of the Christian religion, and with the unanimous teaching of the holy Fathers and the decrees of sacred councils, they above all instruct the faithful diligently in matters relating to intercession and invocation of the saints, the veneration of relics, and the legitimate use of images, teaching them that the saints who reign together with Christ offer up their prayers to God for men, that it is good and beneficial suppliantly to invoke them and to have recourse to their prayers, assistance and support in order to obtain favors from God through His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord, who alone is our redeemer and savior; and that they think impiously who deny that the saints who enjoy eternal happiness in heaven are to be invoked, or who assert that they do not pray for men, or that our invocation of them to pray for each of us individually is idolatry, or that it is opposed to the word of God and inconsistent with the honor of the one mediator of God and men, Jesus Christ, or that it is foolish to pray vocally or mentally to those who reign in heaven."
Krispy
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| | 2005/4/11 8:12 | |
| | Re: | | Our family went to a Catholic Church this weekend for an Eagle Scout ceremony. Our friend's son earned Eagle, and they are Catholic, so they held the ceremony at their church. While there I picked up a bunch of their Catholic literature (that was free in the lobby). The only thing I've read so far is a thing about Mary... and I found it interesting that in the pamphlet it mentioned that [b]MARY[/b] has crushed the serpents head.
Where is that in the Bible?
It's not there... not to mention, I cant seem to find any of the other statements about Mary in the Bible that the RCC believes... except that she was a virgin [b]when Jesus was born[/b]. (She [i]did[/i] have other children.)
Krispy |
| | 2005/4/11 13:07 | |
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