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Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 724

 The Veil that Still Covers Hearts Today

Dear Saints,

Satan's servants are still masquerading as "servants of righteousness" and we need to be aware of how subtly effective their objective is.

The objective of Satan who is using them is to blind the minds of the unbeliever so as not to see the glory of God in the face of Christ. One of the most effective means of accomplishing this is to appear to men as "ministers of righteousness", but a righteousness based upon THE LAW, rather than in the LIFE of CHRIST.

There are those who are advocating that Christ was the means to fulfill the ultimate purpose of God - HIS LAW. This is directly opposite of what Paul taught. Paul taught that "the end of the Law is CHRIST." The entire goal of God was not the Covenant of Sinai, which was merely temporarily put into effect until the promise Seed of Abraham should come. That Law had no life, but merely carnal ordinances put into effect until the time of the reformation. It was temporary in its design, so to attempt to make it permanent is a grave error.

Our Lord, knowing this, declared "for all the Law and the prophets were UNTIL John, since that time the Kingdom of Heaven is being declared." The Law of Sinai's only purpose was to bridge the time between Abraham and his Seed, who is Christ. These false apostles are turning the gospel upside down by making Christ the bridge to fulfilling the Law. They glory in the commandments, rather than the Life of God in Christ Jesus.

Carefull reading will show you that those who are adamant about establishing the Law see that Christ was not the Goal, but the means. In this, Satan has blinded their eyes using the Law as the veil to block the view of the glory of God which is seen not in the Law but in the LORD.

I encourage everyone to read II Corinthians 10 and 11 and you will see that the false apostles, the deceitful workmen, were JEWS attempting to establish the Law as God's goal rather than Christ. Read the passages carefully and you will recognize why Paul refers to "are they Hebrews?" "Are they Israelites?" "Are they the seed of Abraham?" These are the false apostles, the deceitful workmen. What do Hebrews, Israelites, and decendents of Abraham pursue with a zeal without knowledge - righteouesness based upon THE LAW!

No one should be mistaken, the Law is powerless to produce God's ultimate goal - RIGHTEOUSNESS. The Law did not contain LIFE. It takes the LIFE of God to produce RIGTHEOUSNESS. The Law has power to make SIN manifest. Christ has LIFE to make the FATHER manifest. The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus did not come to enable us to keep certain feasts days, which were mere shadows of things to come. The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus came to enable us to become like God, to partake of His divine nature. To think as He thinks, to love as He loves, to do as He does.

The people advocating that the LAW was the goal and Christ is the means have become some of Satan's most effective servants. They are zealous for righteousness, but they are ignorant of the only means by which it will ever be established. Their goal is to establish righteousness through the Law, and Satan has in them one of the most effective means to lead them away from the simplicity of devotion to Christ. Like Paul said, they have missed the aim entirely - the bullseye of the Law is CHRIST!!!!!!!
Once faith in Christ has come, the tutor is no longer needed, the SPIRIT OF ADOPTION can cry out ABBA Father and we no longer need to be under the supervision of the Law.

Beware of those who are giving GLORY to the LAW, and a pat on the back to Jesus for making it possible for us to live by law. They are sincere in their efforts and zealous about it as well, but they are false apostles, deceitful workmen.


Alan and Dina Martin

 2011/11/17 10:10Profile

Joined: 2009/5/15
Posts: 1042
Pacific Ocean

 Re: The Veil that Still Covers Hearts Today

Very well put. Thank you Alan!

Jeremiah Dusenberry

 2011/11/17 10:39Profile

Joined: 2007/6/29
Posts: 342

 Re: The Veil that Still Covers Hearts Today

He won't answer the Scriptures.

The readers must be warned, that they fall not over the precipice with him.

Thank you for doing so, so well as you have done Brother Alan.

Rejoicing with you in the Lord for His amazing grace, dear Brother.

Be well,

 2011/11/17 12:04Profile

 Re: The Veil that Still Covers Hearts Today

Dear makrothumia, thanks for the post. If you believe that the Law points to Christ, that's great! if you believe that those who think otherwise are agents of the devil, that's fine too. You have the right to express yourself.

But I must mention that there are some on this forum that insist on suppressing those who believe otherwise. In my humble opinion, that's wrong.

May Yahweh bless your understanding

 2011/11/17 13:21

Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 724


Dear Monnkz,

Please do not think that I refer to anything other than those Paul was warning about. Please read these verses carefully and understand that this is the concern Paul is addressing. Paul is waring about men who are wanting to be teachers of the Law.

"Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith, FROM which some, HAVING STRAYED, have turned aside to idle talk, DESIRING TO BE TEACHERS OF LAW, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm."

I do not even know you, other than you believe strongly in keeping the Sabbath. That does not automatically make you what I believe Paul was warning about. A person can keep Sabbath unto the Lord and be approved because he keeps it by faith. I do not oppose the keeping of Sabbath, nor did Paul, he opposed and I with him, men who seek to place the yoke of Sinai upon the necks of the Gentiles. They do this blindly not realizing that they are perverting the very commandments they are promoting - By making them universal they overturn the very foundation of the special covenant relationship between Yahweh and Israel. Yahweh limited the commandments to "the sons of Israel." All who make them universal to all men are transgressing Yahweh's own boundaries, adding to His own words and He will prove them liars for doing so.

Please just read II Corinthians 10 and 11 carefully as I have encouraged you to do and you will see that false apostles, deceitful workers, were Jews. These were the ones who gave Paul the most trouble throughout his entire ministry. They were "ministers of Christ" who were insisting the covenant of Sinai was not temporary but eternal. They were preaching circumcision in order to bring Gentiles under the yoke of the Law. Their devotion to the Law and zeal to exalt it led them to go beyond God's own intent and purpose for it.

These deceitful workers goal for every gentile was "circumcision" in order to bring them into the covenant with Israel. They were very sincere and earnest about this, but they were deceived. Paul was so finished with such preaching that he wrote "If I still preach circumcision, then why am I still being persecuted."

Please face this honestly, You know that those who would preach Law must preach circumcision. No Gentile can evey partake of Passover without first circumcising himself and every male of his house. You know this and Paul and all the Apostles stood firm that this is not the will of God for the Gentiles.

Moonkz, you are welcome to email me privately and I am willing to go over the entire Torah and New Testament with you. I am not specifically accusing you of advocating that Gentiles must obey the Law of Moses, but I am calling anyone who would advocate this a false apostle and a deceitful worker. I learned this from the Hebrew of Hebrews himself, an Israelite from the tribe of Benmamin, circumcised the eighth day, more zealous about the Law than any of his contemporaries, a Pharisee by choice, and regarding the righteousness found in the Law - blameless.

I with him count it all dung compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Chris Jesus my Lord.


Alan and Dina Martin

 2011/11/17 13:52Profile

Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3433
This world is not my home anymore.


monnkz wrote:
But I must mention that there are some on this forum that insist on suppressing those who believe otherwise. In my humble opinion, that's wrong.

I know you were not speaking directly to me but allow me to say that “no, it isn’t wrong” when 1) it’s not your website and 2) the Forum Disclaimer / Community Rules are clearly posted.

If you want to post your own beliefs at your leisure then by all means create your own website and labor over that one; which is clearly the rational alternative to your dilemma.



 2011/11/17 13:58Profile

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708


Christ is our Sabbath. Why did God give Israel the fourth commandment? To remember what God did in six days. Keep it Holy as a remembrance of creation and the Law God, waiting for the Seed, Jesus Christ promised to Abraham, even outside of the Law.

Who is our remembrance upon now? Lu 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
1Co 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
1Co 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

So we eat and drink to Jesus Christ, not to a day, be it Sat or Sunday, makes no difference in Christ, we are not remembering the creation and the Law, we are remembering a Person whom is our cup in the new testament in His Blood. If there is any Law, it is to eat and drink in remembrance of Him, Jesus Christ, our Sabbath Day Himself.

Also Alan, I agree that the old covenant in the Law is no more. Thank you for your appologetics in Grace and Truth by Faith.

This annuls the old 4th commandment. The new should be remember the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ, The Person of our new creation of being Born Again by the Spirit of Him who gave Himself that we might live. Our new life is a Person not a day. This is our remembrance.

In Christ: Phillip


 2011/11/17 14:31Profile


Dear Lisa, my threads are not based on my opinion, they are backed by scripture 100% read without prejudice and you might get some insight from it. These views are held by many. Are you going to suppress everyone that thinks otherwise?

Please read this thread posted by Moderator - Greg Gordon -- its beautiful. It's saying very similar things to what I've been posting. Living by every single word that proceeds out of the mouth of Yahweh.

As for your comments on building my own website, I'll let that slide.

 2011/11/17 14:33


Dear makrothumia, thank you for your kind explanation. In order to clear this confusion, the Savior himself said:

Matthew 5:17-19 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH DISAPPEAR, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, WILL BY ANY MEANS DISAPPEAR FROM THE LAW until everything is accomplished. ANYONE WHO BREAKS one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

This should have solved the matter. The Savior and the Apostles including Paul kept the Law period.
Why would they teach us otherwise? can someone explain this to me please!

 2011/11/17 15:24

Joined: 2006/3/29
Posts: 42



Thank you! I have already seen posts from that individual regarding this topic, hence why I decided to give no reply. I am not interested in passifying the unbiblical claims he is making any more than the person I have met (here in the "real" world). The reason I posted this topic was because prior to two months ago I knew nothing of the 7th day adventists. It wasn't until my husband started carpooling with one that I began doing research for him. I am sure that unless the Holy Spirit moves in this mans life, he will continue to have a hardened and deceived heart (from what I can tell all 7th day adventists seem to be confrontational). I know that we cannot convince him with our own words but we can do our best to be prepared when he throws his "choice scripture" at us.


Thank you to all who replied!




 2011/11/17 17:11Profile

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