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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Not all recieve the Holy Spirit, because not all ask to recieve it!

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njhoover
Member



Joined: 2010/7/31
Posts: 61


 Not all recieve the Holy Spirit, because not all ask to recieve it!

Hello brethren! Something I've come to understand recently is the doctrine of the Baptism of the Spirit or the Second Baptism. When I became a Christian and read of the miracles of Jesus, the Acts of the Apostles and the promise of Christ that "whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do" made me realize I had no ability to do likewise. I began to pray and beg God to give me this Spirit of power. One night as I was praying, I felt the presence of the Holy Spirit in the room with me. My skin tingled all over and I was filled with an immense sense of joy, love and peace and completeness. This is the Baptism of the Spirit.

Related scriptures include Luke 11:11-13:
"If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ASK him!”

Acts 8:14:
"Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria HAD RECIEVED the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, who came down and PRAYED for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, for he HAD NOT YET fallen on any of them, but they had only been BAPTIZED in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid their hands on them and they RECIEVED the Holy Spirit."

Notice they heard the word and were baptized, but didn't receive the Spirit until the Apostles prayed and laid on hands.

Matthew 22:
"And again Jesus spoke to them in parables, saying, "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son, and sent his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding feast, but they would not come. Again he sent other servants, saying, 'Tell those who are invited, See, I have prepared my dinner, my oxen and my fat calves have been slaughtered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding feast.' But they paid no attention and went off, one to his farm, another to his business, while the rest seized his servants, treated them shamefully, and killed them. The king was angry, and he sent his troops and destroyed those murderers and burned their city. Then he said to his servants, 'The wedding feast is ready, but those invited were not worthy. Go therefore to the main roads and invite to the wedding feast as many as you find.' And those servants went out into the roads and gathered all whom they found, both bad and good. So the wedding hall was filled with guests.

"But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment. And he said to him, 'Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?' And he was speechless. Then the king said to the attendants, 'Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' For many are called, but few are chosen."

I have come to believe the wedding garment is the Holy Spirit and those without it are not Christ's.

Romans 8:14
"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, THESE are sons of God."

Lastly 2 Corinthians 13:5 says
"Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ IS IN YOU?—unless indeed you FAIL to meet the test!"

I hope this builds up. I appreciate any disagreements or criticism.

 2011/10/16 17:10Profile
a-servant
Member



Joined: 2008/5/3
Posts: 435


 Re: Not all recieve the Holy Spirit, because not all ask to recieve it!

Hi njhoover.

I think you connect some of the spriptures not in the correct way. "Garment" is something we put on, it signifies something outward we wear or do. The Holy Spirit is a person, we don't wear a person. This comparison doesn't work very well.

Look how garment is used here:

Revelation 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

It's a personal way of conduct, they have defiled their garments, to what the remedy is to overcome (sin) - and so their name will not be blotted out of the book of life. And He said this to them by first calling that church in general "dead". And then specifies that "a few" of them are not defiled. The Holy Spirit is always holy, He is not subject to defilement, so this cannot be the distinction here.

Here the Spirit is called the Comforter, a person that is given to those that love Jesus and are willing to do whatever he says:

John 14:15  If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

 2011/10/17 0:51Profile









 Re:

njhoover

`I began to pray and beg God to give me this Spirit of power.`

You had been better praying for the Spirit of holiness aka the Holy Spirit. Many are deceived on this point.

 2011/10/17 3:27









 Re:

This is a very controversial topic... but let me say that EVERY believer is sealed with the Holy Spirit and recieves the Holy Spirit at conversion. There can be NO conversaion without the Holy Spirit.

Krispy

 2011/10/17 6:53
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Quote:- Hello brethren! Something I've come to understand recently is the doctrine of the Baptism of the Spirit or the Second Baptism.

Are you sure

Quote:- One night as I was praying, I felt the presence of the Holy Spirit in the room with me. My skin tingled all over and I was filled with an immense sense of joy, love and peace and completeness.

I rejoice with and remember the day where when I asked God to change me I wasn’t a Christian the very opposite, I didn’t go church, but I was fed up being violent and knew that if I didn’t get help I would end up killing someone… As I prayed the simple prayer God change me I fed up being like this and laid down on my bed..

What happened next was a wind left me after it left a wind blew into me (a physical wind one which I could feel) and I sat up in bed and spoke in tongues…

I cant deny what happened to me that night and I never will, but as I have gone on in my life I have come to a different way at looking being Baptized with the Holy Spirit.

Well what is this different way of looking at it you may ask well there is a quote on this post:-

Quote:- You had been better praying for the Spirit of holiness aka the Holy Spirit. Many are deceived on this point.

Look at what Peter says in Acts 15:8-9 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

God acknowledged them (1)by giving them the Holy Spirit (2)AND purifying there hearts..

So this violent man who was radically changed to a totally different person that later stage Christian walk comes to a different way of thinking after a time of fasting and prayer. That after that time of fasting and prayer God reveals to him that there still remains in him the remnant of Sin.

That SIN remains in the believer after conversion.

That this SIN is so rapped up in your personality and in who you are that you believe it to be you. God in his mercy also revealed that he has made provision to deal with that SIN that remains…

Look at the Corinthian church their internal squabbles and sexual immorality. Paul makes it very plain in his letter that the Corinthian Christians, though they had the gifts of the Spirit in operation in their church, were nevertheless "carnal" (3:1-4)

You see its not enough to say we can talk in tongues or can operate in the gifts, as we can talk in tongues until we are blue in the face and yet be “carnal” and when we have elevated to a place of importance that SIN that remains will destroy us and the name of Jesus will be mocked because our heart has not been clean and we have been deceived by the SIN that remains in us.

The church today needs to be Holy, believers today need to be Holy…its not enough to say I can talk in tongues I operate in the gifts of the spirit, I say this even though I talk in tongues and can operate in the gifts.

We must be able to say, the church must be able say that our hearts have been purified. Then you’ll see the church, Gods people move in ways we have only read or heard about…

Lord, make me as holy as a pardoned sinner can be made Quote :- Robert Murray McCheyne


_________________
Colin Murray

 2011/10/17 10:49Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

What promise, The Holy Spirit of promise. None of these ask for the Holy Spirit which God Poured out at Pentecost and in them to fulfill the statement in many different places; "He is with you and shall be in you".

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2011/10/17 12:33Profile









 Re:

Quote:
"...even as many as the Lord our God shall call."



That means EVERYONE that the Lord chooses to save!

Krispy

 2011/10/17 13:21
njhoover
Member



Joined: 2010/7/31
Posts: 61


 Re:

"There can be NO conversaion without the Holy Spirit."

True. No one can approach Christ unless the Father allows it. Conviction doesn't come without the Holy Spirit. The scripture does make a distinction between being called by the Spirit and receiving the indwelling Holy Spirit. The verse I quoted in my first post is a perfect example.

Acts 8:14:
"Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria HAD RECIEVED the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, who came down and PRAYED for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, for he HAD NOT YET fallen on any of them, but they had only been BAPTIZED in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid their hands on them and they RECIEVED the Holy Spirit."

Notice the progression: Received the word (believed the word), baptized, THEN the Spirit fall on them after PRAYER for the Spirit.

"You had been better praying for the Spirit of holiness aka the Holy Spirit. Many are deceived on this point."

Allow me to disagree:
2 Timothy 1:7
"for God gave us a spirit not of fear but of POWER and love and self-control."

Characterizing the Spirit as the "Spirit of power" is not at all unbiblical and just reflects one of its attributes.

"I think you connect some of the spriptures not in the correct way. "Garment" is something we put on, it signifies something outward we wear or do. The Holy Spirit is a person, we don't wear a person. This comparison doesn't work very well."

I will concede on this point. Perhaps I am wrong. Though scripture does mention the Spirit in terms of clothing in one instance:

Luke 24:49
"And behold, I am sending the promise of my Father upon you. But stay in the city until you are CLOTHED with power from on high."

I would encourage others to read past threads:
"You Need the Baptism of the Holy Spirit - Wilkerson"
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=24862&forum=34&post_id=&refresh=Go

And the sermon by Wilkerson:
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=15234&commentView=itemComments

Sermon by Tozer:
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=62007205514

"This is a very controversial topic..."
I am in agreement with you here brother. I don't mean to stir up dissension, just to pass on the teaching entrusted to me.

 2011/10/17 13:48Profile
njhoover
Member



Joined: 2010/7/31
Posts: 61


 Re:

David Wilkerson expounds on the reality and importance of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit in his book The Cross and the Switchblade. He explains that at Teen Challenge, one of the keys to breaking heroin addiction was for the kids to seek this filling of the Holy Spirit.

Page 157:
"The Book of Acts tells us of five different times when people received this experience," I said, "and the early Pentecostals noticed four out of five of these times, the people who were baptized with the Holy Spirit began to speak in tongues."

Page 162:
"Roberto took one look at me and leaped to his feet; and my heart leaped with him. "I want everything God has for me," he said. "I want to make it through and never come back." Roberto fairly ran to the front of the chapel. He grabbed Nicky's hands and put them on his own head. Almost immediately the same thing happened to this boy that had happened to my Grandfather; he began to tremble as if a current were flowing through him. He fell to his knees, and the other boys stood around him, praying. It was like reliving a scene from the Book of Acts. In less than two minutes a new language was flowing from Roberto's lips."

In the related book Run Baby Run, Nicky Cruz describes his struggle to be filled with the Holy Spirit or to be Baptized with it.

Page 192:
"I didn't know how to pray except out loud and I got louder and louder. I would kneel at the altar and cry out to God, "Baptize me, baptize me, baptize me!" But nothing happened."

He gets baptized on page 196:
"Some thing moved in my soul. It was as though someone had turned on a faucet, slowly at first. Then I began to fill up."

Dwight L. Moody received the baptism years after becoming a minister (from the webpage: http://www.exchangedlife.com/Sermons/topical/holyspirit/baptism_spirit1.shtml):

"D.L. Moody was a successful minister but by his own admission later, he lacked the power in his ministry. One day two women came up to him after a service. They said,
"We have been praying for you."
"Why don't you pray for the people?" he asked.
"Because you need the power of the Spirit," they said.
"I need the power! Why," said Mr. Moody, in relating the incident years after, "I thought I had power. I had the largest congregations in Chicago, and there were many conversions.”

Moody also said that in a sense, he was satisfied. He was in a comfort zone. But these two praying women rocked the boat. They told him that they were praying for an anointing by the Holy Spirit for D.L. to have a special service to God. He could not get this off his mind and he said, “There came a great hunger in my soul. I did not know what it was and I began to cry out to God as never before. I felt I did not want to live if I could not have this power for service”.

After the great fire of Chicago, DL was working to raise money to rebuild a tabernacle. He said his heart was not into it because he kept crying out to God to fill him. He withdrew and prayed during a visit to New York to raise money and he cried that God would fill him with His Spirit. DL describes it this way:

“Well, one day, in the city of New York -- oh, what a day! -- I cannot describe it, I seldom refer to it; it is almost too sacred an experience to name. Paul had an experience of which he never spoke for fourteen years. I can only say that God revealed Himself to me, and I had such an experience of His love that I had to ask Him to stay His hand. I went to preaching again. The sermons were not different; I did not present any new truths, and yet hundreds were converted. I would not now be placed back where I was before that blessed experience if you should give me all the world -- it would be as the small dust of the balance.”

 2011/10/17 14:21Profile









 Re:

So are you saying that some Christians who have been truly regenerated and saved by the grace of God do not have the Holy Spirit in their lives? And that in order to have the Holy Spirit in their lives they must do so by way of works (asking for it and believing)? In other words they must earn it... by making the right decision, which would be deciding to ask God for it?

Does this not elevate man just a smidgen? In other words, if things are as you have interpretted scripture to say that they are... then you are a better child of God than someone else because you were smart enough to ask God for the Holy Spirit, and exercised more of your own conjured up faith in order to receive it.

Is this correct?

By the way, I'm not knocking The Cross and the Switchblade... but I'm only concerned about what the Bible says.

Krispy

 2011/10/17 14:48





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