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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Given Her for a Covering by Mike Atnip

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Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 724

 Extremes to avoid in this discussion

Humor aside, although enjoyable when appropriate.

It is important to remember that taking an argument to an extreme in order to make it appear absurd falls short of wholesome communication. If we are to seek mutual esteem and honor of one another, we should all seek to avoid charaterizing one another in an unfavorable light.

I want to show that there are those who practice the covering of the head in a personal and practical way without falling into the category of extreme that some fear is inevitable. Peace is possible in diversity.

I am an elder of a fellowship with 29 families,several couples, and many older singles. There are sisters who wear feminine, non sensual pants and a headcovering during meetings. There are sisters who wear makeup and cover their heads during meetings. There are also sisters who wear only dresses or long skirts and wear a head covering all the time. There are sisters who do not cover their heads during meetings or at home but have long hair, wear dresses and pants, makeup, some jewelry. There are sisters who put on headcoverings any time they pray, at home and at meetings. There are head coverings of all sizes and colors, small and large, from bandanas, to shawls that wrap around the entire head.

The one thing I have not found in any of our sisters is "contention" about the issue. We have never had a problem arise because of this issue at all. Every sister seeks to have the highly valued meek and quiet spirit in the sight of God, both those who cover and those who do not.

The sisters in our fellowship do not judge one another, they live their conviction before God and according to their husband's desire. They respect the boundaries that God has established, especially the boundary of "let wives be subject to their own husbands."

We have no problem here. The unity of the Spirit is preserved in the bond of peace. None of us live to ourselves alone, nor do we die to ourselves alone. Since we live to the Lord and die to the Lord, we are the Lord's and therefore we do not judge one another.

Those who do cover, do not judge those who do not. Those who do not cover do not judge those who do. WE ARE THE LORD'S.


Alan and Dina Martin

 2011/10/26 14:24Profile

 Re: Sin of prayerlessness

I see a lot of straining at a knat to swallow a camel here. The religious spirit compels one to dictate to a woman what she must wear to pray or prohesy. Knowing this forum is predominantly cessionist I will shelve the prophesy question.

But what about the sin of prayerlessness in our churches? One is so concerned about the attire of women praying, does your church have a prayer meeting? I am hearing churches saying with pride they are cutting out their prayer meetings.

Can somebody please explain why you are debating external nonessentials when the church in America has no prayer life. It seems there are more important things to discuss such as the lack of prayer in church.

On the last IDOP for the persecuted there were only 2 people in the prayer room praying. The pastor and myself. This out of a mission church of over 600 people.

I heard at the last SI conference there were a thousand people in attendence. But only 5 people in the prayer room. Something dreadfully wrong with this picture.

And headcoverings are being debated? Me thinks that we better examine our priorities.


 2011/10/26 14:26

Joined: 2011/5/5
Posts: 112


If that were true then you are basically saying this is a doctrine and we would see this being taught in the other churches in the NT, which it is not.

Also, doctrines of Christ and the church are supported by more than one scripture passage. This one is not.

Your arguments are not convincing.

Why is this not spoken about in other epistles by Paul?

What was he really trying to convey to only the Corinthians?

 2011/10/26 14:28Profile


This issue is just too crazy, it really is.

The "hair" was supposed to be a sign of submission, but that has been long gone by the wayside.

A woman would have to get away from religion, away from controlling Pastors and to find that inner peace and tranquility so she can be a woman and not be what the Church, Society or groups are dictating she ought to be.

When they do dictate, fear and rebellion will rule in her life. I have seen it far too often. Women who bob their hair up into a beehive and parade themselves in their long "jean" skirt, (which by the way is the rebellious way of saying, "I can't wear regular jeans but I am allowed to wear a jean skirt"). The pride and the arrogance is overwhelming.

Is it worth it? In these legalistic groups it must be.

So the idea of women's hair, whether it's short or long is irrelevant these days because they have lost the true meaning of what it's all about. Many attribute it to salvation and therefore it must be discarded, for them it needs to be until they understand the meaning of it. Some women think their long hair makes them holy and you can't touch them, not even their husbands.

I've heard one woman say to her husband once, "Don't touch me, I am holy".

For those reasons alone, the debate about hair has no business being in the Churches of God because we simply have lost all meaning and all senses concerning it. Until it's restored in it's proper order and thought about with sobriety and common sense, it's of very little use. God will only look at as flesh because the heart is not changed.

 2011/10/26 14:29

Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 724


Daer Brother Blaine,

If the Lord has laid the burden of prayer upon your heart, perhaps it would be best to start a new thread with this as the subject.

Maybe one of the reasons that prayer rooms are not filled, is that prayer closets with the doors shut behind them are. Our Father sees those who pray in secret as well as those who are counted in the prayer rooms.

The apostle Paul chose to write on this topic while believers were enduring great persecutions. Would you accuse him of being "religious". I think not.


Alan and Dina Martin

 2011/10/26 14:35Profile

Joined: 2011/5/5
Posts: 112


Amen, Approved and Martyr.

This is nothing more than a religious spirit no matter how they try to package it.

This is very superficial.

 2011/10/26 14:39Profile

Joined: 2011/10/20
Posts: 7



I'm not sure who you were responding to, but I would say, we cannot throw a scripture away because we do not see it a second time in the Bible. Otherwise we would have to throw away every scripture that is not repeated twice or more.

I would agree that when something is only referred to once, we need to be even more careful in our interpretation. If there is any other logical interpretation that does not contradict anything else in scripture, we also cannot say our interpretation has to be right. If something is clearly stated though, we should not discard it even if we do not find it in another scripture.

 2011/10/26 14:48Profile

Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7515

 Re: Att. Blaine

"Faith is a heart issue. It is faith and faith alone that pleases God. Not the external headware."

James 2:14-26 NASB:
14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food,

16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?

17Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

18But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.”

19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.

20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

21Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?

22You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;

23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” and he was called the friend of God.

24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

25 In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?

26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

Blaine, I shared these verses for your consideration although I am not certain it will minister to you but it may to someone else. But I do have one question for you.

After communism fell in eastern Europe, many church groups thronged the area bringing their brand of Christianity. Many Christians lamented this influx of western Christianity, saying they are so liberal and the damage they wrought to the persecuted church was tragic.

Many of these Christian ladies wore a head covering. Now my question to you is did Voice of the Martyrs go in there and tell them it was unnecessary? All I need is a yes or no answer.


Sandra Miller

 2011/10/26 14:54Profile

Joined: 2011/6/16
Posts: 183

 Re: Extremes to avoid in this discussion

So makrothumia is in a fellowship where there are women on both sides of the issue and there is no contention about this.

Those who do cover, do not judge those who do not. Those who do not cover do not judge those who do. WE ARE THE LORD'S.

So, why are we discussing this?

 2011/10/26 15:18Profile

 Re: Has anyone heard

Has anyone listened to Carter Colin's message given last Friday at the SI conference in Atlanta? His message was Jesus loving people through us. If you go and listen to that message you will find ther are FAR MORE IMPORTABT things to be concerned about than a piece of head cloth.

I have listened to that message and I was convicted. God is calling us to be.vessels of his love and to testify of Jesus. The world wants to see that we care about people not a piece of cloth.

I challenge you to listen to that message and then ask how essential is this stuff.

Bu the way Times Square Church must be doing something right. The women don't wear the head covering. But they love God. And they certainly love their neighbor. Guess what? They are blessed with people coming to Christ, mission outreach, ministries, signs and wonders, etc. The thing that characterizes their church is love, not religion.

Jesus said his disciples would be known for their love for one another, not their external regalia.


 2011/10/26 16:21

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