John 3:8
The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot where it comes from or where it is going. So is everyone born of the Spirit.

John 16:8-11
When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteouness and judgnent; in regard to sin because men do not believe in me,in regard to righteousness because I going to the the father, and in regard to judgment because the prince of this world now stands condemned.

John 6:63
The Spirit gives life, the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit, and they are life.

Romans 2:4
Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance, and patience not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentence.

It's a sovereign loving work of God in man through his Spirit. Not tradition.

Blaine

Dear brother Martyr

For now I would like to address the verse you quoted in Romans 2:4
After this I would like to disappear for a while and perhaps when I come back we could go over the rest of the verses to understand the context.

Romans 2:4
We will have to read the verses before and after to see the full picture of what Paul is saying.

1Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
4Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6Who will render to every man according to his deeds:


In Paul’s time, there were two groups of believers, Jews and Gentiles.
Gentiles did not pass judgment on any one because they felt inferior and defiled.
The only one that judged was the Jew.
Paul is not saying it is wrong to judge, but he is saying that to judge and do the same thing is putting oneself under the judgment of God.
When the Jew who rests in the law, and makes his boast of God, knows his will, and approves the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
confident that he himself is a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, has the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law, yet he himself which teach another, teaches not himself? He that preach a man should not steal, does he himself steal?
He that say a man should not commit adultery, does he himself commit adultery? He that abhors idols, does he commit sacrilege?
He that make his boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonor he God? For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through YOU.


Now, why is it so important to take things within the context?
The answer simply lies in the fact that we face these same issues today.

Backslidden Israel is the modern church in America who goes about teaching the unsaved world to repent and trust in Jesus, to forsake their sexual perversions ( homosexuality)and murder ( abortion) when she herself is defiled and ridden with sin.
God still shows her goodness, longsuffering and forbearance v.4
She still has the Word of God available to her in many translation that she spends her time fighting over which one is the best, she still have freedom of worship in big buildings, prosperity.
This is the goodness of God that should lead her to repentance.
But instead of repenting she had rejected the law of her God and turned to idolatry, worldliness.
The Pastors steal sermons one from another, they teach the doctrines of man, and pervert the Word of the Lord, they scatter the sheep, they strengthen the hands of those who do evil and say : No evil will come upon you, The sheep who are rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD: who want to hear smooth things, words of deceit.

This is the goodness of God that should lead to repentance, but does the fact that it is not leading to repentance makes it God’s fault.
Is the church in that evil condition because God had withheld repentance, grace and goodness. And if God is hardening the heart of the church in America, is he doing so because of his arbitrary will and pleasure to destroy the wicked or is it because she had rejected the warnings of his Word, despised his covenant, and watered down his fear.

Indeed he will send the Muslims to force the nude daughters of Jerusalem to put on veils. He will put Muslim clerics in the pulpits of his own house to teach the church the law of God., he will send armies of immigrants to eat the fat of the land.
Woe to us, for that which we have feared has come upon us. Because we despised the fear of the Lord and now He Himself is our adversary.

Stay well, brother.

_________________
Fifi

Untobabes

My sister I am somewhat puzzled. At first I thought you were talking about traditions to get God to bring revival. But now you are talking about a back slidden church in America. I think any discerning believer, including myself, would agree with you. I have implored saints in this forum to heed the natural disasters that come up on this land as judgments from God. It is as if God is given us warnings to wake up, for our redemption is drawing near.

My sister I think we are in agreement for the need for revival. But instead of discussing or debating let us pray. I pray with a group of believers on Tuesday nights in a conference call. We call out for revival. Come and pray with us. Are you familiar with the persecuted church? Do you kniw about the shipping containers of Eritrea, the death camps of N. Korea, or those imoprisoned in China?. I moderarate a call of intercessors from across the country where we pray for the persecuted church. Come and pray with us. We meet 3 times a week. Even tonight we have a call. Email me and I will give you or any other forum member the call info.

My sister I see to much talking and very little praying. I challenge you in love and gentleness come and pray with us. Edmond Burke said in order for evil to triumph is for a few good saints to do nothing. That is ny adaptation. So I ask you dear sister. Do you want to do something, then please come on our calls and pray with us. Please email me and I will gladly give you call info. My email is in my profile.

Blaine