Quote: """ So we can also have the victorious life he has attained."""

Have you attained it yet? Philippians 3:12-14 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

I am still pressing toward the mark and believe even when we go the Fathers House, we will be learning this mark for all eternity, In Christ Jesus by the Holy Spirit whom we have in us forever.

In Christ: Phillip

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Phillip

I am encouraged by the comments here – after getting over my shock about the imperfections of Keswick. This reminds me of the words to a hymn, ‘Prone to wander, Lord I know it”. Surely works-centered living has been one of the most tempting “bunny trails” for zealous believers – and Keswick was not immune. But then, doesn’t that prove Romans 7 to be an ever-present reality in Christian living? Christians are forever slipping into law-living?

Ironside would be another example, like JI Packer, who became tormented by holiness teachings - until he stopped striving for it, and simply accepted the state of rest in Christ’s free gift.

I’ve heard Rom 7-8 preached as a split; and it has always made me feel distressed, and ashamed about my own real experiences and struggles. (So, for now I’m too afraid to listen to such a sermon again) Actually, I did read over Rom. 7 and 8, and I see no distinction between past and present - at least, between the chapters. Romans 7 is speaking in the present tense. Also, how can Romans 7 even be true for a non-believer? They do not even have the law of the Spirit at work within – to spawn this struggle. Only believers can experience that, is that not correct? And furthermore, Paul would not have needed to exhort believers in Romans 8 to be ruled by the Spirit if the sinful nature was no longer an ever-present option. As some of you are pointing out, the victory is not that the sinful nature is absent, but that we are not doomed by it, and we have the life of the Spirit within to give us victory.

You refresh my spirit with these words:

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Diane

The central scripture at Keswick was Romans 6:3-4 "Rom 6:3-4
Do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. NKJV. So Keswick took the position that the Christian died with Christ on Calvary, and reckons himself to be dead. Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.KJV
So we reckon our 'selves' our old nature to be dead. Gal 2;20, I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless, I live, Yet not I. Gal 6:14 Gal 6:14
But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.KJV
The problem in understanding Keswick theology is in a word, "I".
I am crucified with Christ as a natural body and I am raised a spiritual body. 1 Cor 15:44 It "I" is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. KJV
"Yet not I" or Yet not ego.Self has no part in it.So we continue to reckon our"selves" to be dead. (Initial Sanctification and progressive sanctification.)
See: "The Reckoning that Counts." Miles Stanford. www.withchrist.org.
Also: "The Centrality of the Cross" Jessie Penn-Lewis http://www.worldinvisible.com/library/jessiepenn-lewis/8791/8791tc.htm
Also: www.yetnoti.com
Also: www.soberworld.com - "Absolutely Sober-A History, Principles and Practice of The Destruction of Self-Centeredness" recounts (a) history and prehistory of Keswick and its link through the Oxford Group, with Alcoholics Anonymous.
Self "I" begins to shut up. When it does, we begin to hear Holy Spirit. We then walk in the Spirit.
I hope this helps.

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George McLauchlin

Watchman warned about the dangers of the misunderstandings of the working of God that would lead one into passivity. he wrote a great deal about it in "The Spiritual Man".

It may be that only Christians that have been thoroughly broken can understand this teaching as they have their own experience to relate it to. They experience the weakness and inability in themselves to accomplish a task like teaching or testifying or preaching. They rely on the Lord to strengthen them in this work rather than plowing through in their own strength.

I see the "doing nothing" as not launching out in our own strength...like coming out of hiding in Christ. It is actively abiding which requires at times mortifying the desires of the flesh, actively using the mind, wrestling with the spirit. Its hard to explain.

I've known people, among them pastors, that don't agree with the teaching. I think its easy to dismiss it because its so hard to obtain and it gets frustrating for them.

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Randy Lambert

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George McLauchlin