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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Keswick (Deeper Life) Theology - Please Someone Help Me With This!

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UntoBabes
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Joined: 2010/8/24
Posts: 1033
Oregon

 Re:

Remember this one thing, friend.

Just because multitudes of people may believe with all their heart that God does not exist, some even may take a space craft and soar to the highest hights and not find him, that does not change the immutable truth that (( HE DOES EXIST )). The way is indeed narrow and few there be that find it.


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Fifi

 2011/10/10 16:12Profile
MichaelLiao
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Joined: 2011/4/24
Posts: 210
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 Re:

Thanks for the resources,

If I have time, I'll check them out!

In Christ,

- Michael Liao


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Michael Liao

 2011/10/10 18:02Profile
sermonindex
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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Quote:
I just wanted to ask about Keswick Theology. I know there are guys in this camp such as Watchman Nee, Charles Trumbull, D.L. Moody, Hudson Taylor, and I assume Andrew Murray as well, and pretty much we hear them quote Galatians 2:20, "I'm crucified with Christ, it is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith IN/OF the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me." It can be called the Abiding Life, the Exchanged Life, Crucified Life, Christ in you etc. But recently I've come across some criticism against this kind of teaching by reformed people like J.I. Packer.



This is a great question. There are many books on Keswick theology and the founding of the Keswick convention meetings in England. I believe Keswick came out of a burden to see unity in the body of Christ amongst those that were more closer to the heart of God in experiencing Christ.

Jesus Christ said that eternal life is to know God (experientially) John 17:3.

Keswick theology is an attempt to put the living Christ into day to day Christian living and to promote an overcoming life by the faith and power of the Holy Spirit. It is a doctrine of holiness and I believe the emphasis is not full but just part of the whole picture. It lacks practical implications of holiness and puts more the thoughts on holiness that is positional and declared.

It also carries with it thoughts about the holiness of God and the sinfulness of man Thus it has reformed overlays in it.

In the end I believe that Keswick Theology was a wonderful movement and conventions that have conveyed part of the Christ living in us.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2011/10/10 18:28Profile
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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I would also say that different Christian movements in history have given different terms to the same experience such as some people are touching on in this thread. The wesleyians called it "perfect love" some old holiness groups called it "second blessing" keswick theology calls it the "crucified life" reformers call it "sanctification" some modern groups call it the "baptism of the Spirit"

Christ in us the hope of glory is the end of the matter and is the reason that we are holy. Thus His Spirit filling us and having control of our lives is what makes us holy before God. And these experiences are many yet can be more pronounced several times in our life in experiencing and meeting with God.

I am glad God is larger then many theology boxes we put Him into.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2011/10/10 18:31Profile
Christinyou
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 Re:

Quote:

"""Christ in us the hope of glory is the end of the matter and is the reason that we are holy. Thus His Spirit filling us and having control of our lives is what makes us holy before God. And these experiences are many yet can be more pronounced several times in our life in experiencing and meeting with God."""


Amen, Pure Paulean theology, "in Christ", and Christ in us, The fulfillment of the word of God. When God our Father looks at the Cross he sees me, When God looks at me He sees Christ. Praise God, the only way I have of being Holy is by the Christ in me.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2011/10/10 18:43Profile
MichaelLiao
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Joined: 2011/4/24
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Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 Re:

Thanks Brother Greg,

It is true, we don't want to box God in and limit Him with our finite minds. Though there are many names to this as you have brought up in this post, ultimately the application is the same, that is Christ in us, the hope of glory (Col. 1:27). The thing is though, how would you respond to a person who says that Keswick teaching advocates passivity? Of course, I do understand why other Christians would be concerned about that, as the Keswicks do talk about resting in the LORD.....

For example,

Watchman Nee has a quote like this, "This is the secret to the victorious life: we do nothing; He does it all. When we cease, He flows out. The more we cease, the greater He flows."

In Christ,

- Michael Liao


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Michael Liao

 2011/10/10 18:50Profile
Christinyou
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Quote:

"""Watchman Nee has a quote like this, "This is the secret to the victorious life: we do nothing; He does it all. When we cease, He flows out. The more we cease, the greater He flows." """

Yes, Michael; Paul states this perfectly.

Col 1: 28-29 "Perfect in Christ" Our labor according to His working in us mightily". This is the only labor that counts for the kingdom.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2011/10/10 19:03Profile
Areadymind
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 Re:

It is interesting to me that passivity would be an accusation against their theology. I think I can understand why, but I would suggest that is either a caricature or a mis-representation of what I understand it to be about. I am far from an expert on it, which is why I hesitate to directly answer your questions. I would probably say something stupid to misrepresent them. However, I can say that books by Andrew Murray, Hudson Taylor, Major Thomas, Alan Redpath, and others who were involved in that movement tend to apply the New Covenant life in the way that makes the most sense to me, and also seems to be how I have understood it.

It is Christ in us, the hope of glory, and yet that will have a direct impact on our lives. As Watchman Nee once said..."The body of Christ is a reality, not a doctrine." John the Baptist also said, "He must increase, and I must decrease." John 3:30


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Jeremiah Dusenberry

 2011/10/10 21:17Profile
twayneb
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 Re:

Michaelliao:

I would not say that men such as Whitfield or Spurgeon are totally bad just as I would not say that all of what John Calvin wrote was bad. But I do think Reformed theology has some serious errors.

As to Nee and the like, I have found them to be men who walked in a revelation of God's word that has blessed me in a great way. I am sure I could find things there as well that I do not agree with, but I can tell you that I would wholeheartedly recommend Nee to any believer I meet. I am not familiar with J I Packer but I did read the link in your previous post. It left me scratching my head.


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Travis

 2011/10/10 21:54Profile
MichaelLiao
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Joined: 2011/4/24
Posts: 210
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 Re:

Haha,

I remember Major Ian Thomas said, "Some people imagine that if you bow yourself out and bow the Lord Jesus in, if you die to self-effort and let God do it, that is passivity. Well it is passivity only if you consider God to be passive......"

I know that when it is Christ is in us and working through us, things happen. I mean it's because of listening to the promptings of the Holy Spirit and letting Christ in us flow out, that revivals can break out; that the Light of the World may be revealed in this dark world.

God help us all to rest upon the LORD and to not do things in the flesh...

May we have complete self-abandonment and just cling to the Lord Jesus Christ....

"Nothing in my hands I bring, simply to Thy Cross I cling..."

In Christ,

- Michael Liao


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Michael Liao

 2011/10/10 22:22Profile





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