I was listening to this today and feel that I should share it. Brother Bill McLeod speaks on the life lived surrendered through a look at the life of Joseph. I believe this has great implications in the discussion that will follow. May the Lord give hearing ears to those who will seek Him.



 Move Out Of The Way by Bill McLeod

Topic: Surrender

http://media.sermonindex.net/18/SID18434.mp3

Mike Bickle gets a lot of attention on this website, and I believe that most of it is negative.

It is not a good thing that 80% of the manifestations taking place in many meetings is not the result of the Spirit of God coming on the saints but is due to other factors.

There are many churches that can boast that they do not have any wildfire in their services, and this is very true, because they don't have the true fire of God falling either. The service is so tightly regulated, structured and predictable that the spirit is shut out altogether.

Mike Bickle made some very good points in addressing this subject, and if you can get past the idea of manifestations, look what he had to say at the very end on the 5 main things that they are seeking in their meetings.

1. They are seeking to connect with Jesus. Another word for connect is to abide or have intimate fellowship with.

2. They are seeking to do things according to the Spirit of truth. Seeking reality, keeping things real. No fake, no imitation.

3. Not drawing attention to ourselves. The focus has to be on Jesus.

4. Liberty (Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom).

5. sensitivity to other people (Not allowing our liberty to be a stumbling block to others.

Mike

_________________
Mike

"There was a poster who believed I was insulting God"

Spell my name out clear brother, it was me! :o)

"But I feel many in this forum would discourage any type of emotional response to the word."

I agree, they would!

There are a lot of people that come here that do speak in tongues brother, they don't come out and say it, but it's hinted here and there, and they are careful not to say it here because it's not received well, because equally there are people here that will whole heartily disagree with you on that subject as not being for us today.

We all know that our faith is not built upon a feeling, we all know that, but some tend to go further and say there is no feeling at all in this walk, and you know, that is pretty stupid when you think about it.

I mean, God is so above and beyond us, and yet, He has emotion. He gets angry, He even feels our infirmities, He even woos as a lover would His mate.

Personally,, I don't want to restrict the moving of the Holy Ghost.

As for this IHOP thingy, your going to get all manner of foolishness in a service when the service is not governed by the Spirit. The leadership needs to take authority of it's services and allow the Holy Spirit to have His way. We need discernment in our midst and once it's seen for what it is, it's stopped in it's tracks, there is no more discussion, it's dealt with right then and there.

Jesus wouldn't even allow them to continue on. That should tell you how much our eyes are shut to these things.

Ephesians 5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

Brother in all honesty I could not remember who the other poster was. My Droid's small screen can only take so much info. But I think you see the intent of post was not to insult God. And I do apologize for the saorcasm in my post. But I am trying to challenge this forum to be honest. For the most part this forum is driven by a Calvinistic mindset that is cessionist. For the most part this forum disdains emotion.

Brother you have been honest and for that I respect you. We may not agree with aspects of doctrine but we do agree on Jesus. I know there are some who resent my posting in this forum. Ironicaly the post have concerned the persecuted church. On one occasion I was asked to leave the forum.

I know at some point I will leave but I will continue to post with honesty, particularly regarding myself.

Regarding IHOPI I do believe the mature leaders, assuming they have some, should gently oversee the worship and guide the younger believers into a more solid experience of the worship of Jesus.

Blaine Scogin

"IHOPS? I thought they just served pancakes. Now they also serve the fruits, flakes, and nuts of the spirit? lol

p.s. Do they do all that bizarre behavior with other customers around? Bad for biz."

Trekker, I am not sure if your question is an attempt at sarcasm or are you really wondering about IHOP...

When I first came here and people talked about IHOP I was really confused. The only IHOP I knew was the restaurant. It took a long time for me to learn they were talking about a church called "International House of Prayer".

If your question was genuine, here is the answer. If you tried to be humorous, I can appreciate it as well. :-)

_________________
Sandra Miller

I speak in tongues. I don't flaunt it nor am I ashamed of it. Paul thanked God he did.

Unfortunately there are many things within the Charismatic/Pentecostal movements that have brought a reproach on the name of Christ. [And I'm sure there is also incidents in the circles who don't believe in the gifts] but there are believers who are not caught up in the hysteria that is sometimes present in these circles. Many of those people are on this forum. We realize that it's not about drawing attention or impressing people. We realize the Holy Spirit wants to point to Christ not self. As a young believer I had a tendency to look around church and try to judge who's in the 'flesh' and who isn't. I realized it became more of a distraction. I think when it comes to issues like this where people disagree but orthodox doctrines are not violated, I judge by the fruits.

Does it give glory to God, produce more love for God, love for the lost, love for the brethren, is selfless, produce holiness and purity, humility...

When I hear/see the crazy things that happens, I'm actually grieved because it brings reproach to Christ. Also, many of these people are true brothers, misled and in error but nevertheless part of the body. We can be quick to cast of people who we see in the wrong. What is the Lord's attitude? I think He is grieved but wants to redeem them. Many OT prophets cried out for God's people when they forsook God. The prophets were seeking God and walking close to him yet they felt the heart of God and mourned and wept for those who were in error.

An old pentecostal preacher that I knew who just went to heaven 2 weeks ago [in his 90's] once said concerning order in the church, in his Okie [Oklahoma] countryfied tongue, "well, whose order do you want? you want man's order or God's order...there's a whole heap of a difference between them". If the wild and bizarre things that happen in the Bible was happened in front of us today and what would people say?

Yes, I am very disturbed and grieved by the errors taking place today but does that negate the genuine work of God in others? If an unbeliever says, look at the bad things that came out of Christianity. No way am I gonna believe that is truth. What are we gonna do?

_________________
Ricky Aguas

Usually anyone more radical "than us" in their expression of praise or worship is "out of order". That is what Michal thought about David as he flailed, leaped, stomped about, and danced wildly. Oh, by the way, he was laughing as well. 2 Sam 6 uses the word play in KJV 'sachaq'. It means to laugh with joy or to mock an enemy. He that sits in the heavens shall LAUGH! David laughed as he praised the Lord. I think if God was displeased, He would have taken David out as well as Uzzah.

Paul also has an interesting comment 2 Cor 5:13 when he said if I be beside myself, it is unto the Lord, (like David said, it was before the Lord)but if I be sober it is for your sake.
He basically was saying sometimes it looks like I have lost my mind, (insane). Do some people look like they are insane at times? How do you know what is going on in their heart?
I remember hearing a testimony of a man who grew up "fatherless". God began to show him how HE was there for his ball games, and when he cried from loneliness, etc. This man began to roll across the floor weeping and laughing as God walked him through key times of his life showing him HIS faithfulness.

I am not justifying everything that happens but there is clearly WORD for unusual expression before the Lord.

How about some laughing during intercession and warfare prayer as we behold the futility of the enemy. We are seated with Christ. Are we not? If He is laughing then so am I as I am in Him.

sachaq check it out

Russell

_________________
Russell

I dont know... I really like their pancakes. The Colorado Omelette is pretty good too!

Krispy

If anyone is wondering exactly what kind of "manifestations" are occurring, I'd like to direct you to a few examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPhDxAQSpEE&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1udgv0LHEv4&feature=related

There's a fruitful discussion on the manifestations here:

http://slaughteringthesheep.wordpress.com/2011/06/28/unholy-manifestations-at-ihop/

And lets not be coy, this stuff is demonic.

rufnrust It's not whether the worship itself is acceptable or not, it's whether this manifestation hunting game some Christians are playing are opening themselves up to demonic possession.

David was willfully dancing before the Lord with all his might. He had the power to stop at any point. Paul may have had some ways of worship that seemed "crazy," but he ALWAYS had self-control. How do I know? Because self-control is a fruit of the Spirit and is an inherent characteristic of EVERYTHING THE SPIRIT DOES.

Some of these manifestations include UNCONTROLLABLE jerking, UNCONTROLLABLE laughter, and drunkenness (a la. LOSS OF CONTROL).