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DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1395
Lakeland FL

 feminism and college and a paper

I am currently in an intro to women's studies class. I didn't think it would be too bad of a class going into it but I didn't realize how wrong I would be.

Our professor, a he, said that there would be things in this class that tick us off. This class seems to stigmatize women who want to have kids and not want a career of their own.

There are 16 people in the class and 3 of us are guys. Naturally the ladies in the class have much more to say than us guys. I am usually just sitting there listening because what can I say?

We have to write a 5 page paper on a woman's issue. This actually paralyzed my brain for a while simply because I have no idea and then a topic came to me - 'women and sexuality'.

Why am I posting this? To get a little bit off of my chest and also to maybe get some suggestions on a topic I could do about women's issues. It is due around the end of November and I have to have minimum 5 citations. They can all come from our textbook or elsewhere. If I use a bible I have to cite everything about it.

So, given this does anyone have any input? My thought right now is 'Women and sexuality'. I had thought about 'women and religion' but I don't know which would one I could write better about.


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John

 2011/9/1 22:08Profile









 Re: feminism and college and a paper

Hey DEADn,

First question. Why are you in that class?

Ok, ok seriously, how about Salary Discrimination.

You'll hit it out if the park with that one because women working the same job as men are still paid less.

Either that or menopause. You'll find thousands of citations for that one.

By the way, that's the wrong class to take if you're looking for a wife.

:-)

 2011/9/1 22:23
pernvic
Member



Joined: 2007/10/23
Posts: 96


 Re: feminism and college and a paper

http://www.aboverubies.org/ here is a good site about womb-men and their high calling

 2011/9/1 23:26Profile
derrida
Member



Joined: 2011/9/2
Posts: 4


 Re: feminism and college and a paper

DEADn,

I know that my opinion may be somewhat controversial on this forum, but I think the insight you can gain from this class, assuming that one is open to learn, will be valuable in understanding the culture in which we live and the evident disconnect between typically Evangelical gender roles and those commonly promoted in the west. Understanding the sincere resentment towards the church, whether one feels that it is well-founded or not, can be an aid in witness and understanding the women in your life.

Anyway, I assume that you know that the topic you've floated to us is a notoriously complex one, and one that is attended by very difficult writing. However, were I writing this assignment, I would perhaps examine how a sense of empowered female sexuality (meaning one that freely transgresses traditional values and taboos) was offered to society as an agent of liberation in the 1960s - and, as we all know, society was happy enough to accept the offer. My take on the topic would be to suggest that very ideas that were meant to liberate resulted in further subjection. This subjection may be to a still-male-dominated society that further fetishizes sexualized women, or to the fear of disease, or to biology (unwanted pregnancy). Perhaps the subjection is to sex itself - sex becomes the master that dictates one's actions and identity. Theologically, one could suggest the notion of subjection to sin, though such a suggestion would, I think, need an appropriate place in your argument.

This, I realize, is too big for a 5 page paper, and may depend some on how familiar you are with poststructuralist theory. Judith Butler is a big name in feminist studies, but she is absurdly difficult to read. Germaine Greer is also well-known and influential in literary studies. On the notion of the enslaving liberation, look to Michel Foucault's History of Sexuality. He, also, is very difficult, but rewarding when you understand the ideas. I suppose finding commentary on these theorists would be more productive.

Another idea would be to examine, from the point of women's studies, the depictions of female sexuality in the Bible. Look at what is suggested about Adam and Eve, the prototypical couple. Look at strong and powerful female figrues like Deborah or Jezebel. Look at the depiction of the enjoyment of sex in Song of Solomon. Look to the image of Mary, who conceives without the physical act. Look at the women in the Gospels who are condemned for transgressing taboos of female sexuality and look at how Jesus treats them. Is there a pattern or are there parallels? Is there a binary of good/bad in the Bible, with regard to female sexuality (i.e. Jezebel, one could argue, is a sexual figure. Is her wickedness related to her sexuality? Is Mary's goodness related to her lack of sexuality?) What does the text say, and how may it differ from the traditions handed down from the denomination you know? For secondary sources, look at an old commentary and perhaps compare it to a feminist-driven theology. Women's studies has to do with understanding the history of the plight of women, and how western culture is established upon principles that privilege men. How has the Bible been used for that purpose? Is it correctly used, then?

My hope is that these suggestions will not spark any vitriol or arguing on the board, regarding the sinfulness of feminism or how contemporary society hates the family or other such notions. I write as a lover of Christ and as a teacher of university English, and while I have some understanding of the topic, it is not my discipline. I want you to be able to write an intelligent paper appropriate the topic without having to sacrifice your values. But I also want you to do well and not feel it necessary to write a "Christian" paper that makes a statement but unintelligently misses the point of the exercise. You can do well with this, even if the subject (women's studies) is not a comfortable place to be.

Anyway, I hope this helps.
derrida

 2011/9/2 2:58Profile
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1395
Lakeland FL

 Re:

Just -in

why the class? It is part of what my major is. It is a cognate class. I am in Interdisciplinary studies with psychology and communications being the interests.

Not looking for a wife, been married 10 years now so that isn't an issue.


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John

 2011/9/2 8:02Profile
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1395
Lakeland FL

 Re:

Derrida

Very good post!!!! Your post actually pulls in more ideas for me as I am them a bit more limited. My professor would be very approving of what you listed.

Initially I thought about writing on something dealing with lesbianism, as well as the power of the female body for starters. I am not quite sure if he wants us to write this paper in 3rd person or from the point of 'I'. In our informal journals we are to write from the point of 'I' and it something makes us made we are to declare it.

I am going to take your points here and do some reading on them and see what kind of inspiration I can get to write on.
This class is something in which I feel like I have walked into something so deep that I wasn't expecting because it all ties to the past of which I have never paid indepth attention to.
At the same time I want to do something that will teach me something and be 'fun' to write about. Nothing worse than writing something that you really hate writing on and you do it just to have something to turn in.

Do you have any references I could use for your ideas? I can use my textbook for the whole thing if I can find information in it. It is 700 pages worth of stuff.

I have to tell you that my bias' going into this class was that feminists are militaristic and have the intention of saying all white men are bad, Even some references to Christianity with negative adjectives before that word.

I also want to use the paper to sharpen my writing skills. I used to write pen pals back in the 1990's and it really sharpened my skills in writing. This is actually how I met my wife- she lived overseas. Funny because most people when I tell the story, if I don't mention pen pals, ask if I were in the military. Anyway.

Thank you for the post.


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John

 2011/9/2 8:14Profile
derrida
Member



Joined: 2011/9/2
Posts: 4


 Re:

I'll try to hunt up some references for you.

It was a good teacher that helped me to understand the idea of feminism more, and understanding brought more sympathy. Now, I don't buy into the militaristic "womyn" stuff, but, as with most things, the loud and crazy minority gets the attention. If we want to compare our best to someone else's worst we'll always come out looking better.

The idea of feminism is really quite tame and normative by today's standards, I think one could argue that it almost isn't necessary anymore. But there are many academics whose livelihood depends upon churning out books and articles to keep the ideology going, and it becomes more and more extreme. My reading of feminism in its original idea is that it strove for fair treatment of women, equal pay for the same job, equal access to jobs, and a fair distribution of family/household reponsibilities with the husband, allowing the wife to work or pursue other interests is she liked, or even choosing to not marry and not have children, and fair treatment in the case of divorce (i.e. support). Nothing there seems controversial to me. Much of this has become normative and, in that sense, feminism ran its course.

This is, granted, a very idealistic reading of feminism and surely the demands that militristic feminists make upon society are too extreme. In many cases the pendulum of fair and equal treatment has swung past centre and we all can think of examples. Still, I remain in sympathy with that original push for equality.

Anyway,
derrida

 2011/9/2 9:37Profile
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1395
Lakeland FL

 Re:

Derrida

What you say is what I agree with as well but when I think of feminism as a topic I think of women who are manhaters. Women who not only want equal pay but want to be above men because they can do 'it' better than men. Women whole carry the attitude of getting in your face and not carrying what they say. It leads to women never marry because they hate men and some women eventually turn to lesbianism because a woman understands more than a man type of thing.

In my job, I work with all women and normally I work better with women then men because I don't carry that arrogance about me like some men do. I usually wear my thoughts and emotions on me sleeve yet the women I work with are like oil and water. They don't like each other too well and I am stuck in the middle having to put on different personas in order to communicate with them. Never really had to deal with that before.

I say all that to say that it will be a challege for me to understand feminsim as it is supposed to be vs what it probably is now.

I am communicating with my professor about this paper and it turns out there are others in the class who are confused. He bascially wants the paper to be an 'I' paper, How I understand it but I think I have a shallow understanding of it. I see a woman's role through a utopia type of view which isn't valid.

Was your learning process a gradual one or was there a particular writing that broke the door in for you?
I know for me right now, the book I am reading it like sandpaper to my mind. Some things are ok and other things seem very condescending and it is that paper that makes me go grrrr.


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John

 2011/9/2 10:14Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re:

Deadn,

I never was in the position you are in, but I did read a book that impressed me. The book is "Under the Influence - How Christianity Transformed Civilization" by Alvin J. Schmidt. Dr. Schmidt is a professor in sociology at Illinois College at Jacksonville, IL. In this book he deals with the status of women and how Christianity impacted it.

After reading it, I got to thinking and had a question, so I emailed him asking for his opinion. He replied and said it is true.

My question was: it appeared that by the time of Christ the Jewish male attitude towards women had deteriorated from what it was earlier according to the OT law and history. Did this deterioration come about when they were taken into captivity and they imbibed there the pagan mentality towards females? He said, "Yes, this is true."

If one reads OT law as it pertains to females, works to understand the practical benefits, compare it with the surrounding culture, I think you will find it really liberates females. (In one of the prophets God gets angry with the men on how they treated their wives!)

From my perspective, when people embrace worldly culture, discard the taboos long inherent in Biblical Christianity, you will find women being enslaved. What they thought would liberate them, enslaves them all the more. Many of the things females embrace are done so for the sake of someone else's greed, e.g., the abortion industry. Children are taught to breed and when they conceive they are taken to an AB clinic and have an abortion. And this procedure is not free. Indiscriminate breeding also leads to contracting STDs which can kill or at the least infect you for life and who benefits from that? That is the practical...

Deadn, the practical reinforces God's word, demonstrates the beauty of God's wisdom in prohibiting sin! The disregard of God's law for life enslaves. Everytime.

Please keep us posted on what happens...


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2011/9/2 10:59Profile
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2680
Nottingham, England

 Re: feminism and college and a paper

DEADn,

I've hesitated to ask, but, are you a Christian?

 2011/9/2 11:03Profile





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