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shornlamb
Member



Joined: 2010/10/31
Posts: 16
Germany

 God's judgments

Commenting on Revelation 14:6-7:
"In the present day one thing is of utmost importance for us. The point is not whether we UNDERSTAND God in His wrath, but whether we can STAND before Him when His wrath descends upon us with ever-increasing force now in the age of His wrath. Instead of asking God, 'Why are You judging us so severely?', we should ask ourselves, 'In what way have I so sinned that God must pour out His wrath upon us?' In the end times God is calling us, the believers, to fear Him and His terrible wrath, that is, to acknowledge our guilt before Him and humbe ourselves in the dust. Only humbled souls will be spared the wrath of God; they will be able to stand in His judgment. Only such souls will be protected and delivered when judgment descends. Hence the summons for the end times, 'Who shall not fear thee, O Lord...? for thou only art holy' (Revelation 15:4). Fear God! This is the divine summons for us today."
Basilea Schlink

 2011/8/21 5:25Profile
a-servant
Member



Joined: 2008/5/3
Posts: 435


 Re: God's judgments

Isaiah answers some of that question 'In what way have I so sinned that God must pour out His wrath upon us?' :

Isaiah 24:1  Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.

2  And it shall be, as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his master; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him.

3  The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word.

4  The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.

5  The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.


Interesting reasoning, shouldn't he have said : because they rejected my grace?

He was a real prophet, so he instead said : " because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant."

 2011/8/21 6:31Profile
shornlamb
Member



Joined: 2010/10/31
Posts: 16
Germany

 Re:

Thank you, a-servant.

So true what you write.
Obedience or disobedience to God seems to me to be at the root of the matter. To quote again from Basilea Schlink in the same book:

"In the face of all the accusations of men - not only when the judgments of wrath reach their climax, but even now during the preliminary judgments - God, as the righteous Judge, raises a counterquestion:
'Where does all the terrorism come from? The civil wars? The chaos? What is the cause of the economic problems, the misery in the world, the widespread famine? Answer Me.' Then they will fall silent, for in truth they have no answer. And God will give them the answer - perhaps in words like these:
'You have discarded My commandments. You have declared them invalid. In My commandments it is written...'" (Taken from "Patmos, When the Heavens Opened").

She then goes into more detail how disobedience to the individual commandments has led to all the killing, the breakdown of the family, the flood of sexual immorality, etc.

How important it is to not be just a hearer of His word, His commandments, but a doer of them too.

"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Revelation 12:17

"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." Revelation 14:12

"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." Revelation 22:14



 2011/8/21 8:26Profile
rorichts
Member



Joined: 2011/2/7
Posts: 47
Central Iowa

 Re: judgement

as it is written He shall judge the church first and if the righteous scarcely be saved then what shall be the end of the wicked?


_________________
Robert Richtsmeier

 2011/8/21 9:26Profile
Questor
Member



Joined: 2008/12/25
Posts: 78


 Re: God's judgments

No! And no again!

In Yeshua there is no judgement. We have His righteousness, and are covered by it.

Romans 1:16 -19

16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19. Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.


2 Timothy 1:6-7

6. Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands.
7. For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.


There is no need of fear in us, if we love Yeshua, for our love casts out fear that we may trust Him. And in Yeshua is no judgement, and no wrath.


Q

 2011/8/25 22:30Profile









 Re:

`and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19. Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.`

This verse is not speaking of the world. God has only shown the truth to His children, the rest are in darkness. It is the ones who have been shown the truth, that obedience to God is necessary so it is His people who carry on sinning who are the objects of His wrath. The truth is that man has the power of the Holy Spirit to keep him from sin, when he is restored to what God intended for him, and to still be a sinner puts Christ back on the cross for all the world to mock again.

It has been so from the begining not just for today. Gods wrath starts with the church. We are only safely in the ark if we are pure enough for the Holy Spirit to dwell within and He will not dwell in a dirty temple. And it must be in truth and not just as a `position`. A tree cannot bear good and bad fruit - it must be all good or all bad. A tap cannot pour out polluted and clean water. These examples are from scripture to drive home the message.

There is no fear of God only for those who are in the ark.

 2011/8/26 0:59
a-servant
Member



Joined: 2008/5/3
Posts: 435


 Re:

Exactly. The Lord shall judge his people. HIS people.

Hebrews 10:28  He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

What does "had done despite the Spirit of grace" imply?

It's a life that is lived thinking we are 'saved in our sins' - despite the real purpose of His grace that 'He will save His people FROM their sins'. (Matthew 1:21)

Joh 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more

Joh 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

 2011/8/28 5:03Profile









 Re: All

Just some verses to consider.

John 3:36........Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life.for God's wrath remains on him.

Romans 5:9.........Since we have been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him!

1 Thess.1:8-10..........They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true Gid, and to wait for his Son from heaven,, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.

1 Thess.5:9-10..........For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to reieve Salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. He died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we msy live togetber with him.

Saints remember what Jesus did at the cross.

Submotted in Christ,

Blaine Scogin

 2011/8/28 17:21
rorichts
Member



Joined: 2011/2/7
Posts: 47
Central Iowa

 Re:

another to consider
1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?


_________________
Robert Richtsmeier

 2011/8/29 9:38Profile





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