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I don't know if we are really in agreement, because I will never make a formula out of this (= speaking in tongues, entire sanctification, enter his rest, callitwhateveryouwill).
Everyone made a formula, wesley did, quakers did (maybe not Fox, but his followers, pentecostals did...)
With "making a formula" I mean I put this in some theological frame so that you can say "follow step 1 - 5 and then you get it". This will never work. God never honors formulas, God honors brokeness and humility.
| 2011/8/21 8:42||Profile|
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I concur, God cannot be placed into a formula nor can his moves. He is a creative God, it would be like tell all artist you can only use paint in your work and you can only use the color black.
There is also a danger that I see in it and that is false baptism Especially in the Pentecostal movements where speaking in tongues is so largely emphasised I came out of this type of church and it has left me a bit jaded in terms of Holy Spirit baptism. Anyone can "speak in tongues" when their acceptance hinges on it.
| 2011/8/21 8:54||Profile|
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wonderfull testamony shorn lamb
what was the sermon called from camble
| 2011/8/21 9:27||Profile|
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God is a God of relationship and relationship and formulas cannot live together.
| 2011/8/21 9:36||Profile|
| Re: Deeper Experiences of Famous Christians: RE: Second Blessing.|
I'll bet that these 12 thought there was a second blessing.
"And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied."
Conservative theology has outlawed this ministry of God fearing their own theology-identity torn away...and there-by enslaving multitudes to a life lived by the letter; dictated by the "Pastor." This is the System.
1. And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2. He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
7And all the men were about twelve."
These were disciples; believers. Not talking about salvation here: but.....? Do you really want God?
| 2011/8/21 11:04|
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The sermon by Duncan Campbell that helped me was:
"Building the Walls"
- especially his words in the last 2 or 3 minutes about how "the Lord can lift you up into a whole new level, a new consciousness if you would but take His hand tonight and ask Him to do so".(my words).
You can find it among the Audio Sermons on this website under Duncan Campbell (first page), or use the link:
He talks about the experience of a 2nd blessing in many of his sermons. His own experience of it on the battle field during WW I (which he shares in his personal testimony) is also very moving.
| 2011/8/21 13:48||Profile|
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NOWHERE IN THE BIBLE IT SAYS THAT ONE OR TWO EXPERIENCES IN THE PAST ARE SUFFICIENT TO ALWAYS LIVE A HOLY LIFE. YOU HAVE TO BE FILLED NOW - IF NOT ALL YOUR PAST EXPERIENCES ARE WORTHLESS.
Ezekiel 36:26-28 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
Experience and or blessing is not the right word for the work God wants to work.
However God does promises a dual work that dual work is
1. The giving of a New Spirit
2. The removing the Old Heart and the giving you a New Heart.
That work will cause us to walk in his statutes, and that work will cause you to keep his judgments and to do them. We will dwell in the land that he gave to our fathers, we will be his people, and I he will be your God.
Lets look at the new New Testement.....
Romans 1-5 teaches how men were justified by the Grace of God from the days of Abel, Noah, Abraham, after the giving of Law, and now today in the Church.(1. The giving of a New Spirit)
Romans 6 teaches how the believer in Christ can be rid of the still existing Adamic life. (2. The removing the Old Heart and the giving you a New Heart.)
Romans 7 teaches about how men under Law still had a struggle going on with the Adamic Life. As mentioned by the Apostle in verses 4 and 5
when we were in the flesh. Romans seven teaches a comparison of how a man under Law struggled to keep Law
without the Grace of God!(The believer has a New Spirit but the Stony Heart still remains)
Romans 8 teaches how the righteousness of the Law can be fulfilled in us" by the sanctifying power of the Grace of God. Romans 8 teaches how the believer in Christ is rid of the Adamic Life (The stony heart). Romans 8 shows that a believer in Christ can be completely delivered from the Adamic life (The Stony Heart).
In Romans 8 Gods Dual work is complete...
Hope that helps......
| 2011/8/21 16:21||Profile|
| Re: |
you are theologically right, but EXPERIENCALLY NO ONE HAS A PERFECT HEART since the time he got born again.
Every newborn child of god realises one month or week after his conversion, that there is still much "dirt" left in them and God still convicts them of sins and imperfections.
My focus is on the real life, not on doctrine (because we will be judged after our works, so the born again husband who's beating up his wife or who lies and steals or slanders will not excuse his deeds with Ezekiel 36 when he stands before christ...thats the same like saying "but I prayed the sinners prayer"
and you are right in explaining the old man from romans 6 - but the old man/flesh can come alive every moment, if the believer decides to do so (stop believing that the old self is dead. Paul says in him IS (present tense) still nothing good.
so we are not really contradicting, but with different focus.
| 2011/8/21 17:13||Profile|
This world is not my home anymore.
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PS: I like second blessings. And third, fourth, fifth,... blessings. I hope you all have more than one blessing in your christian life.
Amen brother! Some people have received the baptism of the Holy Spirit, spoke in tongues 20 years and never spoke again. We should be blessed everyday to converse with our heavenly Father!
| 2011/8/22 0:18||Profile|
| Re: |
The experience of a deeper walk with God, a 2nd blessing, a calvary moment, a being-broken - call it what you will - is indeed an experience. It is not a formula, not an emotion, nothing legalistic, but a work of grace worked in the life of an undeserving child of God by God alone. That is my belief and experience. I also believe that God's aim is that we love Him with ALL the heart, and that He wants this for us more than we do ourselves. He knows that this is the key to our true happiness. He knows that only then can His Holy Spirit really fill us. He is jealous, He will not share our hearts with other things. And He often has to wait a long time until we finally come to the end of ourselves and our own strength (especially as Christians!) so that He can at last step in and take over. This can perhaps sometimes happen at the beginning of our Christian walk, but seldom does - probably because of all the corruption and deformities of sin in our hearts that God through Christ BEGINS to cleanse. From what I have read I believe that the moment of complete surrender often comes as a conscious decision of a child of God later on in his or her walk with the Lord.
Of course it is NOT a once-and-for-all life-changing decision. It is, however, the BEGINNING of a new, deeper walk with God which, I believe and know to be true for myself, needs to be RENEWED DAILY. Daily I need to surrender my All to God before the day begins, in my prayer closet, and renew my prayer to Him to take and keep my whole heart as His throne. I for myself have found that each new day begun in this way has been a deeper journey of getting to know my Father and Friend in a way and depth that I had not known for most of my Christian life in full-time service for the Lord. The day becomes a walking with Him in almost unbroken communion.
Please forgive me. I know that I'm not eloquent or a brilliant speaker or writer, and I may well have forgotten to mention things that might be important or missing for you, but may I humbly suggest that you might read, if you have time or interest, what men more capable than I have written on this theme:
"THE TWO COVENANTS AND THE SECOND BLESSING"
(to read online or download)
...or a more recent book by John Mulinde describing the same experience. He doesn't use the term "Second Blessing", but this brother's experience is essentially the same. In a very heart-warm and up-to-date way he explains how this call to (and gift of) a deeper Christian walk came during the events of 9/11 as he was working for the Lord in the USA. He writes how it is God's call to us believers today who live in the end times, in a Church that has become compromised and almost ineffectual. It's a good read, Biblically-based and very practical - one to pass on to others:
"SET APART FOR GOD: THE CALL TO A SURRENDERED LIFE"
(as far as I know it's not online yet)
| 2011/8/22 2:37||Profile|