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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Did Jesus Turn Water into Fermented or unfermented Wine?

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savedtoserve
Member



Joined: 2011/4/7
Posts: 255


 Re:

Great, please just be careful [about receiving Biblical instruction on this matter from this forum].

My edit is in brackets.

 2011/8/20 7:48Profile
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

Just because some believe this scripture is refering to alcoholic wine doesn't mean they are an advocates of drinking alcohol.

I believe this interpretation and at the same time no advocate of alcohol but in the state of the context and characters of the scripture see it as alcoholic wine.


_________________
Matthew Guldner

 2011/8/20 8:20Profile









 Break out the Best Wine!

Remember that there was no refrigeration in the Holy Land what-so-ever. It was impossible to keep Grape juice JUICE for very long after the harvest....perhaps fermenting began in a matter of a few days. Then, it was ALL wine...the alcoholic kind. [Israel is warm at Harvest..] Massive amounts were stored in various containers for millenia there.

The culture, as in Europe today, used wine as a food supplement. It is served at the table, and often children participate..[ very mild ].

To the Issue. The head of the wedding feast??..[maybe the son's Father...maybe the groom himself..] commented on the wine, that "The best was saved to the Last."..I can't imagine him saying that about sweeter grape juice.

 2011/8/20 9:40
Matthew2323
Member



Joined: 2004/5/17
Posts: 235
Colorado

 Re:

@savedtoserve,

Since you asked another to provide Scriptural references, would you be so kind as to do the same?


_________________
Matthew

 2011/8/20 10:26Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3420
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Did Jesus Turn Water into Fermented or unfermented Wine?


Fausset says, “Scripture condemns the abuse, not the use, of wine.”

We have to think of this from a witnessing point. To witness to someone that Jesus never had a glass of fermented wine (or only straight wine) makes us look like the uneducated people that they already think Christians are; seriously.

Instead of arguing from the unfermented vs fermented standpoint with people, why don’t we take it a few steps further and just say, “yes Jesus drank fermented wine, but let’s talk about how Jesus never sinned!” Then let our witnessing about the things of God continue from there!

Getting drunk has nothing to do with having fermented wine available to us, but it DOES have everything to do with the sin in our hearts. Then we can ask if their heart is right on this issue but we should know the condition of ours before we venture there!

Just my two cents. God bless,
Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2011/8/20 10:59Profile









 Not to sin is the issue.

"Instead of arguing from the unfermented vs fermented standpoint with people, why don’t we take it a few steps further and just say, “Yes, Jesus drank fermented wine, but let’s talk about how Jesus never sinned!” Then let our witnessing about the things of God continue from there!

Getting drunk has nothing to do with having fermented wine available to us, but it DOES have everything to do with the sin in our hearts. Then we can ask if their heart is right on this issue but we should know the condition of ours before we venture there!"...LYSA

Nice post Lysa! I concur.

"It is not for kings, O Lemuel,
It is not for kings to drink wine,
Or for rulers to desire strong drink, For they will drink and forget what is decreed,
And pervert the rights of all the afflicted!...[ even Solomon!!]

Give strong drink to him who is perishing,
And wine to him whose life is bitter.
Let him drink and forget his poverty
And remember his trouble no more."

 2011/8/20 11:14
Aussiedler
Member



Joined: 2005/2/14
Posts: 109
GERMANY

 Re: Not to sin is the issue.

who cares about such questions? Let me list some categories of people interested in such questions:

1) Pharisees
2) Poeple with a religious spirit
3) Scribes
4) ecclesiastical bloodhounds
5) Pharisees
6) Pharisees
7) Pharisees
8) Pharisees
9) Pharisees

 2011/8/20 17:46Profile
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

Or simply the curious brother, I wouldn't be so quick to judge the intentions of the original post.


_________________
Matthew Guldner

 2011/8/20 17:51Profile
Aussiedler
Member



Joined: 2005/2/14
Posts: 109
GERMANY

 Re:

Maybe you are right, I don't know the intentions of this brother, but you have to admit, that there are many other discussions here...

I edited my list:

1) Pharisees
2) Poeple with a religious spirit
3) Scribes
4) ecclesiastical bloodhounds
5) Pharisees
6) Pharisees
7) Pharisees
8) Pharisees
9) or the curious brother

;-)

 2011/8/20 18:08Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2007
Joplin, Missouri

 Re: Drunk

Actually scripture does not say that the people at the feast were drunk.

Joh 2:10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

It says when the man had well drunk, or when they had had plenty of wine already. You might say, "When they had already drank plenty of wine." You actually have to read something into the verse that is not there to say they were drunk.

Let me say first that I am of the opinion that a Christian, especially an American Christian, should refrain from drinking alcohol. I do not say this from any Biblical statements about drinking alcohol because I would be left without a leg to stand on scripturally. If we only look at scriptures that specifically refer to drinking we would have to conclude that we should, like Timothy, drink a little wine for our stomach sake.

However there are other reasons to abstain. In America if you are a believer and an unbeliever or a weak brother sees you exercising your freedom in drink he will most likely because of the cultural viewpoint on drinking be offended and be caused to stumble. I would rather abstain from bubble gum than to risk offending a weaker brother and causing him to stumble or offending the unbeliever and causing him to reject my message simply to gratify my flesh through exercising my liberty. Did not Paul say, "Gal 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another."

So did Jesus turn it into fermented or unfermented wine? We are not told. However if we have to make an assumption by the definition of what wine is and how it is made we would have to logically say fermented unless we have a clear statement otherwise. That would be my opinion anyway.


_________________
Travis

 2011/8/20 18:54Profile





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