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MityDisciple
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Joined: 2009/7/4
Posts: 34
Moncton, New-Brunswick Canada

 Did Jesus Turn Water into Fermented or unfermented Wine?


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Marc Collette

 2011/8/19 21:05Profile









 Re: Did Jesus Turn Water into Fermented or unfermented Wine?

Your going to get a host of different ideas from this one.

The main reason why most people are going to say unfermented because they have a hard time believing that since Jesus delivers men from drunkedness why would He have turned something that they consider sinful to be served.

Well, if you can receive it and not everyone can and I can understand that and would never impose this on anyone, but wine is called wine because it has been fermented. Wine that has lost it's preservation qualities turns into vinegar (sour wine).

Jesus certainly turned water into wine and ordered it be served and believe me, if it was only grape juice, the men drinking it would have spat it back out. They were at a party, they would have wanted wine and more the better. The time for drinking water, juice and coffee wasn't upon them, that would come in the morning.

The miracle of the wine was twofold. First it wasn't grape juice, because the Holy Ghost is not likened unto grape juice, it's likened unto wine, more specifically "new wine" because new wine is sweet and strong, powerful. Just a swig of new wine was potent and a few more could have you swingin off the raftors, which means with God inside one will be a powerhouse. The second is what the man said, "You have saved the best for the last". The OT with it's ordinary taste, the same thing over and over again, from sun up to sun down the same thing, something like a Catholic Mass. But the NT brought a new taste, something with a kick, power, and refreshing. It will never get old, the same new wine that is drunk at Pentecost is still the same when you have another pentecost 10 years later.

Again, there are people that can't get beyond that Christ could do such a thing as to make something fermented and have it served. The same God that changed it into wine is the same God that embarressed the Apostles with speaking in tongues on the day of Pentecost. Imagine yourself there with todays standards, you would be not only red in the face, but scared out of your socks, especially if you don't lean toward Pentcost. It would have been embarrassing by todays standards for God to do that through His people in front of thousands of people. Changing water into wine is a light thing. Though we have an abundance of food, food is given by God but I know of human beings that have turned into cows by eating too much. Gluttony is sin, but we don't say too much about that because we like our fix.

When people say it's not wine, I have to conclude that they are either ignorant of the scriptures or they are heaping to themselves scholers with itching ears to change the meaning to fit their weak mind and their undertanding of Jesus.

If one doesn't understand something, don't try to change it, leave it alone until revelation comes.

 2011/8/19 22:13
sarahsdream
Member



Joined: 2011/6/16
Posts: 183


 Re:

He changed it into alcoholic wine.

Wine in and of itself is not sinful. Paul told Timothy to drink some for his ailing stomach.

Drinking a glass of wine can hardly be called drunkenness.

I believe Jesus drank a glass of wine at the Wedding of Cana.

In Christ,
Sarah

 2011/8/20 0:16Profile
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

Yet another question is why would Christ have wine served to already drunk men? Weren't they drunk enough?

I have heard many discuss this and it usually gets no where in terms of a good solid interpretation of why and what was going on. One thing I have often read was the miracle of the wine was Christ showing mercy to the married couple and family. Jewish weddings were 7 days long and so to run out of wine when it was only the 3rd day (I believe) would have disgraced the family and couple and though for us it seems like a small thing would have held that against them as long as they lived there. Not to mention the entire town was usually invited to the weddings back then so you had to provide food and drink for everyone when you got married.

Christ made quite a bit of wine but it was going to last the couple and family the rest of the celebration to the very least. That is all I really hope to input in this thread because though I am hopeful its one of those topics that usually gets out of hand pretty quickly.


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Matthew Guldner

 2011/8/20 1:41Profile









 Re:

Thanks mguldner for that which I can go along with. Another thought that has come to me is that God gave the Israelites the flesh they werte craving for in the wilderness.

 2011/8/20 1:51
brothergary
Member



Joined: 2011/8/6
Posts: 103


 Re:

is a wine biblerer some one drinks grape juice

they called jesus such
i would think he changed the water in to wine ,and not grape juice


but it does soung like there are differnt strengt in wine

paull said be not drunk with wine but be filled with the spirit

paul must have been famillar with wine that could get you drunk ,,,
as did his readers,,,so exorted them accordingly

being that this was a jewish wedding ,people were underthe law ,,drunkeness was still sin under the old law was it not ,,,so im sure those at the feast would have been aware the danger of drukenss ,and being a drunk

if a parrent had a disobedent child under the old covernent
who was glutteness and a drunk ,,,,,,the law said that he could be put to death for this

im sure those at the wedding knew this

 2011/8/20 2:30Profile
Pandarus
Member



Joined: 2010/3/25
Posts: 53
Queensland, Australia

 

Now for a bit of historical input:

During the course of history from the Assyrian empire to at the very least the fall of Western Rome circa 460s AD, it was common practise to mix the wine with water and sometimes spices or even honey.

Spiced wine was drunk as the standard service through to medieval times at least.

So yes, of course our Lord changed the water into wine. But remember, it wasn't consumed straight.

In fact it was considered the mark of a barbarian (think scythians, sarmatians) to drink your wine straight.

I hope that assists the context.


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Nick van der Net

 2011/8/20 4:31Profile
MityDisciple
Member



Joined: 2009/7/4
Posts: 34
Moncton, New-Brunswick Canada

 Re: Did Jesus Turn Water into Fermented or unfermented Wine?

thank you for all your input so far


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Marc Collette

 2011/8/20 6:28Profile
savedtoserve
Member



Joined: 2011/4/7
Posts: 255


 Re:

Quote:
He changed it into alcoholic wine.



Where is the Scriptural evidence for this idea?

Wine has two meanings in Scripture, depending on the context. (Look it up!) There is new wine (grape juice) and then there is old wine (alcohol). So when you see the word "wine" you need to study it out, comparing Scripture with Scripture and get the context of the passage.

I'm shocked at how many professing Christians today will stand up for liquor. It's just terrible, really. (Especially compared to how simple and clearcut this matter was to Christians 100 years ago!)

MityDisciple, you ought to study this out for yourself, not just believe everything you're given. Go to your pastor and talk with him about it. Just what you believe is a very serious matter no matter how much you abstain from it yourself.

May God go before you,
savedtoserve


 2011/8/20 7:35Profile
MityDisciple
Member



Joined: 2009/7/4
Posts: 34
Moncton, New-Brunswick Canada

 Re:

yes i don't have a problem with dinking at all, but i do want to be sure what the bible is saying here, just want some different views , i find it helps coming conclusions...


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Marc Collette

 2011/8/20 7:46Profile





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