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mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Communion question

Here lately the Lord has been dealing with me greatly, something He started having me do is after work every morning take some bread and some grape juice and do communion, really not communion though since communion really means Fellowship and so I would need more than just me to really do communion but its more or less sitting down and thanking the Lord for the day and remembering what He did on the cross for my sins and my death with Him.

My question is how often do you break bread and drink juice in a communion type fashion in remembance of the Lord. Something I remember from being in churches is alot of them will do it once a month to every other week to keep it "fresh" and not so much a tradition or ritual what are your thoughts on this?

I am starting up a prayer meeting with some other brothers one being my dad if they are okay with it I plan on remembering the Lord through communion or the taking of break and water,juice, whatever we have if they are okay with it. Any thoughts on this?

In all honest its remember what the Lord has done for me daily and not monthly or bimonthly that has really stirred my heart to really seeking Christ and having a relationship with Him.


_________________
Matthew Guldner

 2011/8/19 6:48Profile









 Re: Communion question

I don`t partake of the Jewish outward ceremony. Here is why;

"The two suppers of Christ;

1) the last supper in the same night that he was betrayed, before he was crucified; and the supper after he was risen, which he calls people to in Rev 3:20, “To hear his voice, and open the door, and he will sup with them, and they shall sup with him.”

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit's Unquenchable Fire vs. Outward Water

Likewise, something concerning Christ, the resurrection of the just and unjust.

And also, concerning the stone cut out of the mountain without hands, which smote the image. Dan 2.

And concerning Christ, the vine, and the Jews, how that God planted them a noble vine, but they degenerated, and destroyed the Lord's servants, and son, that came to look for fruits.

It is said in Mat 26:26-30, Mark 14:22-25, Luke 22:16-20, 1 Cor 11:23-26, ‘In the same night that Christ was betrayed, he took the bread and the cup, and said, As often as you do eat this bread, and drink this cup, do it in remembrance of me; and you do show forth the Lord's death until he come.’ And Christ said, ‘I say unto you, from now on I will drink no more of this fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.’ And Christ said, when he was at his last supper, when he was betrayed, before he was crucified, ‘I say unto you, (namely, his disciples), I will not any more eat thereof, (namely, of the bread of the passover), until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.’

Now mark, the fruit of the vine, and the bread which Christ broke at his last supper, and gave to his disciples in the same night that he was betrayed, before he was crucified, which they were to take in remembrance of his death, and show forth his death until he came; that after they had eat of that outward bread, and drunk of that outward cup, the fruit of the vine, which he gave to his disciples, from now on he would eat no more thereof, (namely, the bread), until it was fulfilled in the kingdom of God, and drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until the day that he drink it new in the kingdom of God, (Mat 26, Mark 14), as Christ said this unto his disciples, at his last supper, before he was crucified. But after Christ was crucified, buried, and rose again, he ate and drank again with them, as you may see in these scriptures following, which fulfilled his own words, as in Luke 24:30. ‘And it came to pass as Jesus sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and broke it, and gave it to them,’ namely, to some of his disciples; and they said unto others of them, ‘the Lord is come; and he was known to them by breaking of bread,’ as in Luke 24:35. And in Luke 24:41-43, Jesus appeared unto his disciples again, and he said unto them, ‘Have you any meat? And they gave him a piece of broiled fish and honey-comb, and he took it, and did ate before them; and he said unto them, These are the words which I spoke unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled.’

And again, Jesus said unto his disciples, after he was risen, John 21:5,9. ‘Children, have you any meat?’ They answered, no. And as soon as his disciples had come to land, they saw a fire of coals there, and fish laid on it, and bread; and Jesus said unto them, ‘Come and dine;’ and Jesus took bread, and gave to them, and fish likewise. And this was the third time that Jesus showed himself to his disciples, after he was risen from the dead, as in John 21:12-14. And Christ, after he had risen from the dead, told his disciples, ‘All power in heaven and earth was given unto him.’ And Christ said unto his disciples whom he sent forth to preach, before he was crucified, ‘Verily, I say unto you, you shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, until the son of man is come.’ Mat 10:23.

And again, Christ said unto his disciples, ‘I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death until they see the son of man coming in his kingdom.’ And again, Christ said, ‘Verily, I say unto you, there be some standing here which shall not taste of death, until they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.’ Mat 16:28, Mark 9:1, Luke 9:27.

And the apostle said, Acts 10:41, that they did ‘eat and drink with Christ, after that God had raised him up from the dead.’ And so they fulfilled Christ's words, that he would eat no more of the bread, nor drink of the fruit of the vine, until he drank it new with them in the kingdom of God. Mark 14:25. And again, Christ said, ‘There are some standing here, who shall not taste of death until they see the son of man coming in his kingdom and power.’ Mat 16:28. And was not this fulfilled after Christ was risen, when he said, ‘All power in heaven and earth is given unto me.’ Then did not he come in power, and did not the disciples see him in his kingdom, after his resurrection?

And John, he that was one of Christ's beloved disciples, that leaned upon his breast in the same night that Christ was betrayed, before he was crucified, did not John then take the elements of bread and wine at that last supper? And was not John one of the disciples that did not taste death until he saw Christ come in the kingdom of his Father with power,* when Christ said, ‘All power in heaven and earth is given unto me?’ And was not John one of the disciples that did eat and drink with Christ after he was risen? And after that Christ was ascended, and sat at the right hand of God, and the churches were gathered, as yet they were not come off many outward elementary things. And did not Christ send John, after he was ascended, to call the church to another supper, and said, ‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock: if any man will hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me; he that has an ear to hear, let him hear what the spirit said unto the churches.’

*[Christ came in power. Christ was undoubtedly in the Kingdom after his resurrection and after he had ascended and been glorified, but the disciples were not in the kingdom yet. They had received the Holy Spirit, but Jesus had not returned as he had promised. After Jesus had been resurrected, and when he was eating fish and bread with them on the seashore, Jesus answered Peter’s question as to what would happen to John: "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me.” So Jesus, after the resurrection, and after he had ascended and been glorified, said his “return” was still to happen in the future.

After he was resurrected, his disciples asked, was the Kingdom to be established then? and he said, "it is not for you to know the time or dates," and then rose to heaven, leaving them. Acts 1:6-9. The Kingdom had not been established yet in his disciples.

Further Jesus in Matthew, Mark, and Luke said they would see him coming on a cloud with his holy angels; coming on a cloud; this is not the resurrection. Christ told his disciples to go to Jerusalem and wait for power from on high; this is the power of the Kingdom they were to receive. When the power of the Holy Spirit was received on Pentecost, the flames of fire dancing on their heads, that was the likely time the disciples entered the Kingdom, and experienced the 2nd appearance, or return of Christ.

So his resurrection was not the return. But, in Matthew, Mark, and Luke, Jesus is recorded saying that some then standing with him, 2000 years ago, would see his glorious coming with the Kingdom before they died. In Matthew, Mark, and Luke, Jesus is recorded saying all the end times prophesies would be fulfilled before the generation of 2000 years ago died, (click here to see all).

But later, while still alive on earth, the apostle said, ‘God has delivered us from the power of darkness, and has translated us into the kingdom of his dear son.’ Col 1:13. And Rev 1:9, ‘I, John, who am your brother, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ.’ They testified to be in the Kingdom then. So his return is a 2nd appearance within the hearts of his purified disciples, then and now,]

Now those who come to this inward and heavenly supper, and to sup with Christ, the heavenly and spiritual man, the second Adam, the Lord from heaven, since he is risen and ascended, they must have their spiritual ear to hear the spiritual voice of Christ, and his spiritual knocking at the door of their immortal souls and hearts, and with his spirit, the spiritual man, the second Adam, the Lord from heaven, the king of glory, that he may come into their hearts and souls, and then they to sup with him, and he to sup with them the spiritual and heavenly supper. And to this heavenly and spiritual supper did Christ send John, to call the church of Christ, after he was risen and ascended. And John said, when Christ sent him with this message, to call the church to this supper, ‘I John, am your brother in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ.’ So here you may see, John was in the kingdom and patience of Christ, when he called the church to this heavenly spiritual supper of Christ, after Christ was ascended at the right hand of God; which spiritual supper, after Christ was ascended, is beyond, and a higher supper than the last supper the same night that Christ was betrayed, of taking the elements of bread and wine in remembrance of Christ's death, and a show of his death until he has come. And had not John taken that supper? And had not the kingdom of God come, when John said, ‘he was in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ?’ Rev 1:9, 3:20. John tells you, Christ has come, and Christ said, ‘Behold I stand at the door and knock, (then is not he come?) and if any man will hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, (mark, into him), and I will sup with him, and he with me.’ And does not the apostle say, ‘Prove yourselves, examine yourselves, know you not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except you are reprobates.’ 2 Cor 13:5.

And may not reprobates take the elements of bread and wine in remembrance of Christ's death, and say, they will do it until Christ has come; yet Christ said, ‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock, (so then he has come and is here), and if any man will hear his voice, and open the door, he will come in to them, and sup with them, and they with him.’

And cannot reprobates be sprinkled with the element of water, and take the elements of bread and wine? And Christ, who has ascended at the right hand of God, said, Behold, I stand at the door and knock; and though he has come, and stands at the door and knocks, yet they will not open the door, and hear his spiritual voice, that he might come in to them, and sup with them, and they with him, as is said before. And such will not open the spiritual ear to hear what the spirit said to the church of Christ; for they must have the spiritual ear that lets in Christ, when he stands at the door, and knocks at the door of their hearts, to hear his spiritual voice, and to sup with the spiritual man at his spiritual supper, after Christ is ascended. And they who do not hear not the spiritual voice of Christ, when he stands at the door and knocks, are such as err from the spirit of God, and faith of Christ, and hate his light, and go from the grace and truth in their hearts; and such do not come to the heavenly supper of Christ that he calls to, now after he has ascended, that will not hear his voice, nor open the door by his grace, light, spirit, and truth, but their dark spirit leads them to live in weak elements, outward things which perish with the using, and which keep them in slavery. Gal 4:9, Col 2:22.

And the angel said unto John, ‘Blessed are they which are called to the marriage supper of the lamb. This is the spiritual marriage supper of the lamb, which the true christians were called to, after Christ was risen and ascended.’ Rev 19:9. For those who have come to this marriage supper of the lamb, are married to Christ, the second Adam, the Lord from heaven. And these are those who hear his spiritual voice, and he is come into them, and sups with them, and they with him; and this is the marriage supper of the lamb, that takes away the sins of the world, and those who come to it are blessed. For reprobates may take the outward elements of bread and wine in remembrance of Christ's death, until he comes, as they say; and yet he stands at the door of their hearts and souls, and knocks, after he is risen and ascended at the right hand of God, and they will not let him in, nor hear his voice; and the apostle tells them, in 2 Cor 13:5, ‘they are reprobates if they know not Christ in them.’

And here you may see now, that Christ called his followers to this marriage supper, after he was risen and ascended into heaven, at the right hand of God; and is not this the last supper that Christ called his people to, after he was ascended, namely, the marriage supper of the lamb; yes, such that had taken the elements of bread and wine with Christ at his last supper, the same night that he was betrayed, before he was crucified, in remembrance of his death until he had come. And John, who was one that took it in remembrance of his death until he came, said, in 1 John 5:20, after Christ was risen and ascended, ‘We know that the son of God is come, and has given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his son Jesus Christ, (mark, in him), and this is the true God, and eternal life.’ And this John spoken after Christ had risen and ascended. He that has an ear to hear, let him hear.

And Jesus Christ said, ‘If any man love me, he will keep my words and sayings; and he that has my commandments, and keeps them, it is he that loves me; and he that loves me, shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. I go to my Father, but you shall see me; and because I live, you shall live also. You shall know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you; and he that keeps my words, my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.’ John 14.

And the apostle said to the Colossians, ‘God has delivered us from the power of darkness, and has translated us into the kingdom of his dear son.’ Mark, into the kingdom of his dear son. And this he said while they were upon the earth, and after Christ was risen and ascended. And John said, ‘that he was in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, while he was upon the earth.’ Col 1:13, Rev 1:9.

And the Colossians were not converted, when he took bread and wine, and gave to his disciples at his last supper, the same night he was betrayed. And were not those who were translated into the kingdom of Christ Jesus, come to the marriage supper of the Lamb? And Christ supped with them, and they with him; and sat together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, as in Eph 2:6.

Here you may see a distinction between the last supper the same night that Christ was betrayed, before he was crucified, and the heavenly marriage supper of the Lamb, that Christ calls people to, after he was ascended into heaven at the right hand of God.

And John saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried with a loud voice, saying, to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, ‘Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God, that you may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of those who sit on horses, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.’ Rev 19:17-21.

Now, all you that will not open the door of your souls and hearts, at which door Christ stands and knocks, nor hear his spiritual voice, to let him in, that he might sup with you, and you with him, the blessed marriage supper of the lamb, slain from the foundation of the world; I say to you all, take heed, both great and small, high and low, free and bond, lest Christ does not make of you a supper for the fowls to eat your flesh, and be filled with it, as in Rev 19; for those not blessed are those of whom the fowls make a supper, but they are blessed that are called, and come to the marriage supper of the lambs. And those who are a supper for the fowls, do not eat the flesh of Christ, nor drink his blood, the bread from heaven; and those have no life [the Life of God] in them, and so will not come to Christ that they may have life, but live in outward elements. John 5:40. But whoever eats the flesh of Christ, and drinks his blood, which is the living bread that comes down from heaven, has everlasting life. And again, Christ said, ‘He that eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, dwells in me, and I in him.’ And these are those who are blessed, and come to the marriage supper of the lamb, and Christ sups with them, and they with him, since his resurrection and ascension into heaven at the right hand of God, the heavenly and spiritual supper of the lamb, and come to be members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bone. John 6, Eph 5: 30.

Now concerning those who say, ‘The bread and the wine that Christ took and gave his disciples, and said, as often as you do eat this bread, and drink this cup, do it in remembrance of me, showing forth the Lord's death until he come,’ as in Matthew, Mark, Luke, 1 Cor, those who say that this outward bread, and the wine, the fruit of the vine, is the very body and blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, and whosoever receives and eats it, receives and eats the Lord Jesus Christ, after the priest have consecrated it; in this they may see their error that do say so, and hold this doctrine; for the apostle said, ‘You that do eat this bread, and drink this cup, you do show forth the Lord Jesus Christ's death, until he come.’ Then it is clear, the bread and the cup is not the Lord Jesus Christ; and the Lord Jesus Christ is not come when they eat this bread, and drink this cup; for while they are eating the bread, and drinking of the cup, they are showing forth the Lord's death until he come. Then he is not come; for they take the bread and cup ‘in remembrance of the Lord's death, and to show forth his death until he come.’ So it is clear, the cup and the bread is not the Lord Jesus Christ, as in 1 Cor 11:24-26.

And again, the apostle said, ‘In the same night that Christ Jesus was betrayed, he took bread and broke it, and said, do it in remembrance of me, and likewise the cup.’ So Christ's body was whole, and was not crucified, when he broke that outward bread; for that which they were to take in remembrance of Christ, and in a show of his death until he came, it was not the Lord Jesus Christ, but outward bread and wine in an outward cup. And Christ was nowhere called a cup, it is said, ‘Christ took the cup when he had supped.’ Then he did not take his own blood and give unto them, but he called it, ‘the fruit of the vine.’ Mat 26:29. And Christ ‘took the cup and gave his disciples, and said, drink you all of it; and took the bread, and broke it, and gave it to his disciples also.’ And in Mark 14:23. ‘They all drank of the cup, and he broke the bread and gave it to his disciples,’ (namely, the twelve), as in Luke 22. And after he had broken it, and given it them, and given them the cup, and called it ‘the fruit of the vine,’ after Christ had given them this, he said, ‘Drink you all of this.’ Mat 26:29, Luke 22:17. ‘Behold,’ said Christ, ‘the hand of him that betrays me, is with me on the table.’ So it seems here that Judas did eat of the bread, and drink of the fruit of the vine in the cup, and he did partake of these outward elements in the same night that Christ was betrayed, which elements were taken in a show and remembrance of the Lord's death until he came. But Judas did not stay until he came, for he betrayed him. Now if this outward bread and outward wine had been Christ, the living bread that came down from heaven, and his blood, which if any man did eat of that bread, and drink his blood, he shall live forever, and not die, as Christ said, ‘Whoever eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, has eternal life, and dwells in me, and I in him; and he that eats me, shall even live by me; and he that eats this bread that comes down from heaven, shall live forever.’ See John 6:50-59.

Now here you may see, it is clear, that the cup and bread that Judas did eat and drink of at the last supper, was not the flesh of Christ, or bread of life that came down from heaven, nor his blood that gives life everlasting; for Judas had not eternal life, nor did not live forever by eating that outward bread, and drinking of that outward cup, the fruit of the vine.

And so, Judas did not eat Christ and live by him, and live forever, though he drank of the outward cup, the fruit of the vine, and eat of the outward bread that Christ broke at his last supper, the same night that he betrayed him; and that Judas might do, and not eat the bread from heaven, the flesh of the son of man, and drink his blood, for such have not life eternal in them, as Christ said, that ‘do not eat his flesh and drink his blood;’ for Christ said, ‘Except you eat the flesh of the son of man, and drink his blood, you have no life in you.’ John 6:53. And the Jews murmured at Christ, when he said, ‘I am the bread that came down from heaven;’ and ‘except you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no life in you.’ And ‘he that eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, has eternal life.’

So here is a great difference between the flesh and the blood of Christ, or the bread which came down from heaven, which gives life eternal, and the elements of bread and wine, which reprobates and Judas's may take and eat, that have not life eternal, nor Christ in them, as the apostle said, ‘If Christ is not in you, you are reprobates.’ (George Fox)

 2011/8/19 7:01
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

Thanks for posting it, I got overhalf way through but understood exactly what Brother Fox was conveying. So there is a better supper to attend, and it is personally with the Father and Christ Jesus. Awesome! Is it wrong then to do communion as a helpful reminder of the Work of Christ and give thanks through it?


_________________
Matthew Guldner

 2011/8/19 7:23Profile
Aussiedler
Member



Joined: 2005/2/14
Posts: 109
GERMANY

 Re:

it is absolutely scriptural to take communion, when you are alone:

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. (Revelation 3:20)

Art Katz exhorted us to do this daily and I know he did it on a daily basis.

 2011/8/19 7:28Profile
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

I knew I listened to a preacher who did this, I had forgotten who so thank you :) Thus far it has been a blessing to me, and it definitely keeps my heart in check.


_________________
Matthew Guldner

 2011/8/19 7:36Profile
brothergary
Member



Joined: 2011/8/6
Posts: 103


 Re:

pual exorted christans to partake in this ordance
but with desenment
and he quoted jesus words

to not partake in it is sin and disobedance

surly we read the letters of paull regarging this

art kats did take it every moring as a type of refresment of grace

it is an awsome thing and truly stirs the heart

take it every day if you feel led bro

what a blessing what a privilage

 2011/8/19 7:47Profile









 Re:

It is not wrong to take it, but rather pointless as the Jewish ceremonies which were symbolic have been fulfilled and the supper is in Spirit and truth just like everything in the OT. If one needs an outdated ceremony to remember to feel grateful to God then one is not walking in the Spirit and feeding on Him moment by moment and in living communion with Him and He has not come again to you in Pentecostal power as He did with His disciples which was the time for which they were waiting for Him to come again, showing forth His death, to be risen from the dead and so continuing to take it if it is a help is ok but not the perfect will of the father who desires worship in spirit and in truth. Why do we still need symbols when we have the reaility with us? That is, if we are entirely submitted to Christ.

Paul was rebuking those who had decided to take it. Some, then as today, take it literally not discerning the Spirit.

 2011/8/19 7:58
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

Sis, I understand what you are saying and since recent development I highly doubt I am baptised in the Holy Spirit as on Pentecost.

I grew up in a Pentecostal church that pressured one to speak in tongues as the sign of baptism since then I have rejected that to be the truth but am still seeking this baptism. I am just now submitting as well so in all reality I am quite new to Christ but far from new to Churchianity or Doctrines of Christianity or even bible facts. Personal Relationship is still something I feel I am missing but I am putting more hope and faith in Jesus Christ and submitting to Him more than I once sought, in that please pray for me.


_________________
Matthew Guldner

 2011/8/19 8:13Profile









 Re:

I think that many Pentecostals are not Spirit baptised due to misunderstanding of what NT tongues meant. Yes I am praying for you,may you be blessed.

Brenda

 2011/8/19 9:29









 Re:

Quote:
It is not wrong to take it, but rather pointless as the Jewish ceremonies which were symbolic have been fulfilled and the supper is in Spirit and truth just like everything in the OT. If one needs an outdated ceremony to remember to feel grateful to God then one is not walking in the Spirit and feeding on Him moment by moment and in living communion with Him and He has not come again to you in Pentecostal power as He did with His disciples which was the time for which they were waiting for Him to come again, showing forth His death, to be risen from the dead and so continuing to take it if it is a help is ok but not the perfect will of the father who desires worship in spirit and in truth. Why do we still need symbols when we have the reaility with us? That is, if we are entirely submitted to Christ.

Paul was rebuking those who had decided to take it. Some, then as today, take it literally not discerning the Spirit.



Yikes... this is unBiblical. Especially the last paragraph. Paul was not rebuking people who had decided to take it, thats very clear. He was rebuking those who took it wrongly. He then goes into detail of HOW they were to partake of it!

Thats about the worst exegete of scripture I've seen on this forum in some time, Brenda.

I certainly disagree with the condescending attitude in your first paragraph as well. While there is a thread of truth in what you say, there is something very special about the symbolic exercise of communion. Communion and baptism have ALWAYS been accepted Ordinances of the Christian faith for 2,000 years.

RC Sproul has said before, and he is correct, if you have stumbled across a new doctrine that no one else has ever thought of or is foreign to orthodox Christianity... throw it out. Amen and Amen.

As far as your references to pentecostalism, I do not reject tongues or other gifts... but clearly they are not evidence of anything accept that God in His wisdom gave that gift to that person in that fellowship for the building up of the Saints. Just as He gifted others to teach, evangelize, etc. Not everyone gets that gift, that is a clear teaching in scripture.

Krispy

 2011/8/19 9:52





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