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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : MacArthur on Beer, Bohemianism, and True Christian Liberty

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mgulder... amen... my heart attack last year is testimony to the fact that God will allow us to abuse our bodies, but we will still pay the price.

If you're gonna dance, there is a band at the end of the night waiting for a check.


 2011/8/18 6:18

Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA


"But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak." - 1 Co 8:9(KJV)

Often when we say that someone is offended we do not mean what the Bible word is expressing exactly; we mean to say they are troubled, angered, or hurt about some teaching or action of others and while those things may be encompassed by what the Bible word means, they do not express it well or fully. The word 'stumblingblock' used here appears to have a very similar meaning to the other words used in the New Testament, that are also translated stumblingblock, and 'offend'.

According to the greek dictionary, they have the general sense of something that trips up, causes someone to stumble, in the religous sense - to sin, to loose or depart from faith, or even to fall away. Offenses are things which erode faith and cause others to sin.

Paul's warning here is not so much against causing confusion or questions in the conscience of someone who would see a believer sitting at the table of idols, eating things offered to them, his warning is against emboldening them to worship the idol itself, or to think that because the 'mature believer' is able to eat food offered to them, it is acceptable to worship them also(since that is what eating the food would have symbolized).

That is why he poses such a strong question after it:

And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish for whom Christ died?

According to the dictionary the word perish means 'to destroy fully'.

Given that and the heavy stigma that acholol has in Western society, the tremendous cost of human life and suffering that is has been a direct party to, the ease with which it ADDICTS, and the power it has to alter human personality and perception, any bias against it among Christians, even if heavily traditional, does not seem as though it should be burdensome at all.

In a society and culture that does not compell people to drink wine or acholol in the absence of clean drinking water, when every resturaunt, supermarket, and corner store has dozens if not scores of choices of beverages to drink and enjoy, any bias against aclohol among Christians does not seem like it should be burdensome at all.

A wise man said that wine is not for kings.

Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2011/8/18 18:30Profile


Having been married to an alcoholic, I know the arguments well from scripture that Timothy drank wine and Jesus made wine. In fact he convinced me. But now, as he is in the final stages and has broken contact with me, I see that God gives us enough rope to hang ourselves if that is our wish.

Studies show that even one drink affects our perception which immediately goes against the commandment to be sober minded that is part of being clear headed.

What is being promoted by the YRR`s is strong drink, rightly frowned upon, not just scripturally, not the low alcoholic necessary drinking in the Bible. It is so easy to read into these verses what we wish to see. For example; the enemies of Jesus called Him a glutten and drunkard but that does not mean they saw Him drunk or even drinking and stuffing His face. It could have been purely because they heard He joined sinners at the table and He may even have turned drink down but His enemies would be just repeating gossip which as often not based on truth.

I think the article is fair and I did not get a sense of pride from it, just concern at how Christians are blending with the world and trying to say they are evangelising to cover it though this does not surprise me when it is Calvinists, the temptation of its faulty doctrines leading to lawlessness.

Krispy I take capsules which contain the helpful susbstances which wine contain ie anti-oxidants without the harmful effect of alcohol on the liver. Doctors frequently do not take the whole body into consideration when fixing one part.

 2011/8/19 3:24


Krispy I take capsules which contain the helpful susbstances which wine contain ie anti-oxidants without the harmful effect of alcohol on the liver. Doctors frequently do not take the whole body into consideration when fixing one part.

Actually the reason he recommended red wine was to raise my good cholesterol. My bad cholesterol was fine, which is what is lowered by the anti-oxidants. It's everything that is in it that helps me, not just the anti-oxidants.

Plus, I just came off the blood thinner I was on. Thats another reason for red wine. The pill you take wont do that for me.

As far as the liver is concerned, a healthy liver processes a glass of wine perfectly. My liver functions perfectly.

People who live on a Mediteranean diet are far more healthier than most Americans. Lower fat, lower carbs... and wine is a staple of the diet (even among Christians there).

Again, NOT encouraging people to drink, but lets stop with the scare tactics. Lets deal in facts and reality.

Sometimes the discussion on alcohol reminds me of how people twist the account of Onan to mean something that it does not in order to scare kids into being moral. People dont need scare tactics, they need a touch from the Holy Spirit. If we scare people into behaving right all we are doing is moralizing.


 2011/8/23 7:19

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