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philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: Dear Bro. Ron B.

Quote:
Its social gospel all over again, this time from the right.


neilgin1
There are some aspects of this which has now been around for a few decades. The Lausanne Conference (1974) was regarded as an exciting opportunity for evangelicals to make joint statements; it was viewed as a Church Council not dissimilar from the post-apostolic councils which produced the creeds. The conference was lauded by the great and famous. It produced its own statements which has seeped into the expectations of much of evangelical Christianity.

There was an emphasis on social action which was really quite a watershed. They produced this statement.

[i]5. CHRISTIAN SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY

We affirm that God is both the Creator and the Judge of all men. We therefore should share his concern for justice and reconciliation throughout human society and for the liberation of men and women from every kind of oppression. Because men and women are made in the image of God, every person, regardless of race, religion, colour, culture, class, sex or age, has an intrinsic dignity because of which he or she should be respected and served, not exploited. Here too we express penitence both for our neglect and for having sometimes regarded evangelism and social concern as mutually exclusive. Although reconciliation with other people is not reconciliation with God, nor is social action evangelism, nor is political liberation salvation, nevertheless we affirm that evangelism and socio-political involvement are both part of our Christian duty. For both are necessary expressions of our doctrines of God and man, our love for our neighbour and our obedience to Jesus Christ. The message of salvation implies also a message of judgment upon every form of alienation, oppression and discrimination, and we should not be afraid to denounce evil and injustice wherever they exist. When people receive Christ they are born again into his kingdom and must seek not only to exhibit but also to spread its righteousness in the midst of an unrighteous world. The salvation we claim should be transforming us in the totality of our personal and social responsibilities. Faith without works is dead.

(Acts 17:26,31; Gen. 18:25; Isa. 1:17; Psa. 45:7; Gen. 1:26,27; Jas. 3:9; Lev. 19:18; Luke 6:27,35; Jas. 2:14-26; Joh. 3:3,5; Matt. 5:20; 6:33; II Cor. 3:18; Jas. 2:20) [/i]

This changed the agenda for many evangelicals and the concept that [i]we affirm that evangelism and [u]socio-political involvement[/u] are both part of our Christian duty.[/i] became the driving force of the last 30 years of evangelicalism.

There is no New Testament biblical basis for the statement that 'socio-political involvement' is part of our Christian duty. My contention has always been that the church is called to be the world's conscience not its government and not its social programme.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2004/12/21 3:53Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: Love Covers a Multitude of Our Sins ...


If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal ...

If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing ...

If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing ...

Love is patient ...

Love is kind ...

It does not envy ...

It does not boast ...

It is not proud ...

It is not rude ...

it is not selfseeking ...

It is not easily angered ...

It keeps no record of wrongs ...

Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth ...

Love always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres ...

Love never fails ...

But where there are prophecies, they will cease ...

Where there are tongues, they will be stilled ...

Where there is knowledge, it will pass away ...

For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears ...

When I was a child, I talked like a child ...

I thought like a child ...

I reasoned like a child ...

When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me ...


And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is ...

L-O-V-E ...



* John 13:34
“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.


* John 13:35
By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”


* Romans 12:10
Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves.


* Romans 13:8
[Love, for the Day is Near] Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law.


* Galatians 5:13
You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature [ Or the flesh; also in verses 16, 17, 19 and 24] ; rather, serve one another in love.


* Ephesians 4:2
Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love.


* Hebrews 10:24
And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds.


* 1 Peter 1:22
Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart. [ Some early manuscripts from a pure heart]


* 1 Peter 3:8
[Suffering for Doing Good] Finally, all of you, live in harmony with one another; be sympathetic, love as brothers, be compassionate and humble.


* 1 Peter 5:14
Greet one another with a kiss of love. Peace to all of you who are in Christ.


All we need is (Christ type) love, love ... (Christ type) love is all we need ... Amen







 2004/12/21 9:40Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Amen, Rahman.

1Co 13:13 But now abideth faith, hope, love, these three; and the greatest of these is love.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2004/12/21 9:46Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

This quote came from a book I just finished, "The Heavenly Man." It can be found on the "Back to Jerusalem," website.

"In China, Christians are persecuted with beatings and imprisonment. In the West, [b]Christians are persecuted by the words of other Christians."[/b] This new kind of spiritual persecution was no easier than physical persecution in China, just different." page 309

Just a thought.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2004/12/30 0:20Profile
jouko
Member



Joined: 2003/10/9
Posts: 172
Ex-England colony of Australia

 Re:

I understand what you are saying but love still remains.

Mat 22:37 And he said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the great and first commandment.
Mat 22:39 And a second like unto it is this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments the whole law hangeth, and the prophets.

There's some attitude change to do to be able to obey.

"In the West, Christians are persecuted by the words of other Christians."

What exactly do you mean by that ? Is it Christians vilifying Christians or christians vilifying Christians or christians vilifying christians ? or something else ?

jouko


_________________
Jouko Hakola

 2004/12/30 2:55Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Hi Bro. Jeff,

God has been dealing strongly with me on this topic and has convicted me and cautioned me greatly. It begins with this passage; But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. (Galatians 5:15) We need to ask ourselves what is feeding our zeal for the things of God. We should be allowing the Holy Spirit to feed it with the word of God and the zeal that comes from the indwelling fullness of the Spirit. But sometimes it becomes a situation where there are disagreements or shortcomings among our fellow brethren and instead of allowing the Holy Spirit to direct us, in how to handle the situation we begin to bite and devour the persons in question. It becomes then a source of feeding our zeal for God; and that, by ripping someone to shreads. That is no way to get yourself fired up for God! I have seen it happen with the so-called "Heresy Hunters." It seems that they lived to rip the next heretic apart. I have had to guard my own heart from this and have repented publically for it and will again right now!

I heard a story once that in the northern tundra areas where wolves are a menace that to deal with them men would bury knives with the blade sticking up. They added a drop of blood to it so the animal would taste it and continue until dead. that taste of 'blood' (as it were) that sport of biting and devouring one another, is an abominable thing. We need to seek the Holy Spirit and get into the word until we can rightly handle these things Spiritually.

Like the 4 lepers that crossed over to the enemies camp, we need to cross over ourselves. There are people inside 'the camp' biting and devouring each other because of the famine of hearing the words of the LORD that is in the west. This sort of Spiritual cannibalism must stop. We have to cease 'feeding' on lukewarm Christians and preachers. We have to stop devouring those who oppose themselves and allow the Holy Spirit to 'feed' our zeal. Then and only then will be be in a place to see them changed. Otherwise all we are going to do is consume them. (Galatians 5:15b)

God Bless,

-Robert


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2004/12/30 7:47Profile
lastblast
Member



Joined: 2004/10/16
Posts: 528
Michigan

 Re:

Quote:
We need to ask ourselves what is feeding our zeal for the things of God. We should be allowing the Holy Spirit to feed it with the word of God and the zeal that comes from the indwelling fullness of the Spirit. But sometimes it becomes a situation where there are disagreements or shortcomings among our fellow brethren and instead of allowing the Holy Spirit to direct us, in how to handle the situation we begin to bite and devour the persons in question.



Quote:
We have to cease 'feeding' on lukewarm Christians and preachers. We have to stop devouring those who oppose themselves and allow the Holy Spirit to 'feed' our zeal. Then and only then will be be in a place to see them changed. Otherwise all we are going to do is consume them. (Galatians 5:15b)



Robert, thank you so much for posting this. I am really struggling in this area right now and needed to read your post. Blessings..........Cindy


_________________
Cindy

 2004/12/30 9:09Profile
moreofHim
Member



Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632


 Re: zeal-love ablaze

I think Robert has hit on an excellent point. One where many mature Christians need to work as well. An excellent article about this is [url=http://www.lastdaysministries.org/articles/zeal.html]Zeal:Love Ablaze[/url] by Leonard Ravenhill.

"This is true zeal for God - to know Him and love Him with a deep and consuming love, and to serve others in the same way we would serve Jesus. Anything else is an imitation."-L.Ravenhill

In His love, Chanin


_________________
Chanin

 2004/12/30 9:54Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

Br. Jouko wrote:

Quote:
What exactly do you mean by that ? Is it Christians vilifying Christians or christians vilifying Christians or christians vilifying christians ? or something else ?



Brother Robert, your illustration of the knife and the wolf paint a graphic picture of the futility of life when we fail to seek Him. Thankyou.

Br Yun wrote on page 312:

"The people who really suffer are those who never experience God's presence. The way to have God's presence is by walking through hardship and suffering---the way of the cross. You may not be beaten or imprisoned for your faith, but I am convinced each Christian will still have a cross to bear in his or her life. In the West it may be ridicule, slander, or rejection. When you're faced with such trials, [b]the key is not to run from them or fight them, but to embrace them as friends.[/b] When you do this you'll not fail to experience God's presence and help."

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2004/12/31 13:51Profile
jouko
Member



Joined: 2003/10/9
Posts: 172
Ex-England colony of Australia

 Re:

Thanks Jeff.

In the preceeding pages Bro Yun writes about a dream he had while on a speaking tour in Canada. He himself writes the dream to be about a demon and how it is to impact the tour.

"First, like the rooster in my dream, we'll meet with a loud and aggressive reaction. Later, a seductive spirit will try to reason with us, pleading its innocence and trying to stop our ministry for the Lord through lies and deceit." page 306.
Further on in the pages a "Christian journalist", ( I don't know if a Christian would do these kind of things if he indeed is a Christian with a capital C ) anyway, as far as I can see writes a slanderous article, ( I call it slanderous as it seems that he can't substantiate the accusations made by him or he has been misled to believe the things ) which further on is also impacting on Bro Yun's tour in many ways.

"In the days after this attack, which appears to have been carefully timed to coincide with the start of our Canadian preaching trip, I struggled with this new form of persecution" page 308

I wonder if the Christian journalist was called a Christian due to him being a westerner or if he indeed was a true Christian ? I believe it is dangerous to say that Christians persecute other Christians with words in the west as any criticism of substance would be deemed un-necessary or un-Christian when it indeed could be true defence by a shepherd protecting the flock from the wolf that comes in sheeps clothing and is there to destroy. I don't know if this journalist was a Christian, but from what I read it certainly is very un-Christ like. If he would have contacted Bro Yun himself to clarify he would have done the right thing according to the Bible as has been discussed in an another thread. The word of God does not tell us that it will be a dance on roses while here, no, it says the opposite.

Act 3:18 But the things which God foreshowed by the mouth of all the prophets, that his Christ should suffer, he thus fulfilled.

Act 5:41 They therefore departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer dishonor for the Name.

Rom 8:17 and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified with him.

2Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that would live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

1Pe 4:16 but if a man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God in this name.
1Pe 4:17 For the time is come for judgment to begin at the house of God: and if it begin first at us, what shall be the end of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Pro 10:20 The tongue of the righteous is as choice silver: The heart of the wicked is little worth.

I also believe it to be necessary to use a comment out of something in context so as not to change the meaning of the message. There is a lot of warnings from true Christians that have value but can be doomed and deemed un-necessary just because we are not supposed to discern and criticise unduly or rock the boat.

As Bro Yun's trip continued it seems the Lord moved powerfully. Finally from page 313.

"The world can do nothing to a Christian who has no fear of man".

jouko


_________________
Jouko Hakola

 2004/12/31 22:56Profile





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