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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : God Annihilates the Mosaic Covenant with its 613 Laws.

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Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860


He is the Word and not my to keep because He is already kept inside of me, He is the very source of Life that lives in me because I in all honest am a dead man. I live in obedience out of Love for Him (not that my love matters, its rather weak) but He sustains me in His Love. Keeping His word as an act of my righteousness would be the equivilent of me making a promise and then immediately breaking that promise.

There is none righteous no Not even ONE! this is a big proclamation coming from one of the Holiest people of the New Testament and church history. What does God count for righteousness? Faith.

Matthew Guldner

 2011/7/30 3:23Profile


I'm glad that you "live in obedience out of Love for Him".

That's what He asked us to do because faith without works is dead.

The works being, "If you love Me, keep my commandments."

Was just reading this -

1Co 5:9-13 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
But them that are without, God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

I couldn't obey before He indwelled me. Now by faith in His enabling, I can. Bless GOD - without Him I can do Nothing.

Many youth groups are being taught a watered down, Reader's Digest version of the New Testament, where His Words about "If you Love Me, Keep my commandments" are thrown out.

What are His Commandments? They are found in the Whole of the New Testament.
We eat His Word and hide it within our hearts, that we won't sin against Him.
Not only is His Holy Spirit our enabler but His Word is Living and Powerful. For the Word of GOD is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Amen, He 'is' The Word and that is our power over sin in obedience to Him.


 2011/7/30 3:39

Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 642


How should we interpret this verse?

1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

 2011/7/30 4:25Profile

Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860


"That's what He asked us to do because faith without works is dead.

The works being, "If you love Me, keep my commandments."

I wouldn't have it any other way, but I would make the solid distinction that it is by faith alone that I stand in Christ and it is by faith alone I am saved, not of me doing anything works related, Christ's work on the Cross is sufficient for me. What was His command to disciples? Follow Me, where did He go? Complete death to self, this is where I am heading. I Love and Serve out of the abundance that is His and Him. I believe we must respond to His love and if we have had true contact with His Love how could we not respond to such a love?

Matthew Guldner

 2011/7/30 6:08Profile


A Few Quotes from the book "Holiness", by J.C. Ryle ~

"Is it wise to proclaim in so bald, naked, and unqualified a way as many do that the holiness of converted people is by faith only, and not at all by personal exertion? Is it according to the proportion of God's Word? I doubt it - surely the Scriptures teach us that in following holiness the true Christian needs personal exertion and works as well as faith."

"Holiness, we must never forget, is the prominent characteristic of all who belong to the one true church."

"It would be easy to show that the doctrine of sanctification without personal exertion, by simply yielding ourselves to God, is precisely the doctrine of the antinomian fanatics in the seventeenth century, and that the tendency of it is evil in the extreme. - In justification the word to be addressed to man is BELIEVE - only believe; in sanctification the word must be WATCH, PRAY, and FIGHT."

"The branch which bears no fruit is no living branch of the vine. The union with Christ which produces no effect on heart and life is a mere formal union, which is worthless before God. The faith which has not a sanctifying influence on the character is no better than the faith of devils. - In short, where there is no sanctification of life, there is no real faith in Christ."

"Believers are eminently and peculiarly responsible, and under a special obligation, to live holy lives."

"Sanctification is a thing that which will be found absolutely necessary as a witness to our character in the great day of judgment. It will be utterly useless to plead that we believed in Christ unless our faith has had some sanctifying effect, and been seen in our lives. Evidence, evidence, evidence, will be the one thing wanted when the great white throne is set, when the books are opened, when the graves give up their tenants, when the dead are arraigned before the bar of God. Without some evidence that our faith in Christ was real and genuine, we shall only rise again to be condemned."

"He that supposes works are of no importance, because they cannot justify us, is a very ignorant Christian. Unless he opens his eyes, he will find to his cost that if he comes to the bar of God without some evidence of grace, he had better never have been born."

"There is no greater mistake than to suppose that a Christian has nothing more to do with the law and the Ten Commandments because he cannot be justified by keeping them. The same Holy Ghost who convinces the believer of sin by the law, and leads him to Christ for justification, will always lead him to a spiritual use of the law, as a friendly guide, in the pursuit of sanctification. "

"Genuine sanctification will show itself in an habitual endeavour to do Christ's will, and to live by his practical precepts. These precepts are to be found scattered everywhere throughout the four Gospels, and especially in the Sermon on the Mount. He that supposes they were spoken without the intention of promoting holiness, and that a Christian need not attend to them in his daily life, is really little better than a lunatic, and at any rate is a grossly ignorant person."

"Let us stand fast in the old paths, follow after eminent holiness ourselves, and recommend it boldly to others."

"There is a very close connection between true holiness and assurance - where there is the most holiness, there is generally the most assurance."

"Nothing so hardens the heart of man as a barren familiarity with sacred things."

 2011/8/1 7:51

Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860


Lest any man should boast. J.C Ryle can take his "evidence" before God and I will take my Christ. Which will be justified?

I agree holiness must never be forgot but whose holiness? Surely not mine but Christ's Holiness that is now in me. A dead man (me) can't be holy, no I have passed away but now it is Christ who is in me that is living and my life, all works, evidence, and holiness are His none of which belong to me. I can only be justified by my faith in Christ Jesus and the work He is doing in me and did on the Cross when He died for me.

Does a flower exert itself to grow? Does the apple tree exert itself to grow fruit? No they grow naturally. Yes submission and dying can be exerting but its not me perserving and exerting but Christ who does it, without Him I am a wretched man that Loves sin.

Those quotes maybe out of their original context but as they are I find some of them hard to agree with. If Christ did it all on the Cross what business do we have trying to add to the Holiness He has given us?

Matthew Guldner

 2011/8/1 8:18Profile


It is because "obedience to GOD" has been decried so much on a number of threads this year, that I thought - instead of posting Scripture again, I'd try posting the words of a respected Reformed Pastor.

Will go back to posting The Word alone.

Mat 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Mat 7:18-27 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, *and doeth them*, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and *doeth them not*, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Mat 25: Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Joh 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

1Th 4:1-8 Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.
For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: that every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God: that no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.
For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1Jn 2:4,5 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord

2Jn 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Heb 5:8,9 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; and being made perfect, he became the author of *eternal salvation unto all them that obey him*

 2011/8/1 8:38

Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860


Obedience is far from decried, only a misunderstanding of what is being communicated. I am glad you posted scripture again, its much easy to discuss than other men's words.

Can a dead man have a will? No, its no longer me working in my will but Christ's will working in me.

Where did the seed that grew the Good Tree come from? Or perhaps the tree was always good and always existant? No the Seed is Christ and its through Faith we obtain this seed.

What did Christ command? 2 commandment he held the dearest to His heart, Love the Lord and Love your neighbor. If we do these two we do what He commanded.

But I testify no man can do these without Christ and so its not the man that does them but Christ in them. This is what I am trying to convey and I do hope you understand I have a deep love and respect for you as a sister in Christ. We must submit to Christ in Faith and this includes our Righteousness that we are so fond of. Salvation is by faith, and a Life of obedience is simply the active work of Christ in us, His grace to us and gift to us is His Holiness and forgiveness.

Must we strive and press in and seek God? Of course, what kind of relationship would it be if I never talked to my wife, never inquired how her day was, what she desires? Christ Jesus is the same way except it is the entire body of Christ that is his bride and it is the entire body of Christ that should be seeking Him cooperately and in unity.

This debate could go on into eternity dear sister and I will say this I am certain we are meaning the same thing with just a different angle on the subject, I believe we both can help each other understand each other better with time.

I accredit everything including the Love in me to Christ, it's all His and since its all His, its all His work, we are mearly vessels.

Matthew Guldner

 2011/8/1 9:27Profile


J.C Ryle can take his "evidence" before God and I will take my Christ. Which will be justified?

Those quotes maybe out of their original context but as they are I find some of them hard to agree with. If Christ did it all on the Cross what business do we have trying to add to the Holiness He has given us?

It's disheartening to find a young man that claims to know more than J.C. Ryle.

You can decide if where I got these quotes from were "taken out of context" as well.

This is a Reformed Theology website and you'll find the Ryle quotes among the others.

Even if I quote Scripture - another will their own favorite verses that they believe negate the ones I or someone else will post. So whether it's quoting a book or The Book, we're accused of taking quotes out of context.

No need to worry that this debate will go on forever.
I see the futility in all of this time on the computer.

My first post of quotes by Ryle were not directed at you, but to the thread's topic.

But greater than Ryle post here, and I'm getting older fast.

We'll all just answer to Him when HE opens The Word of GOD before us on that day.

Take care all.

 2011/8/1 13:18

Joined: 2011/5/5
Posts: 112


Our wills have to come into agreement with the Holy Spirit and God's Word. We have to choose to come into this agreement. God does not do it for us. He waits for us to choose to agree with Him. That is obedience.

He does not annihilate our wills.

If we do not walk in a way that shows agreement with His will then we are walking in the flesh and in the flesh you cannot please God. Those in the flesh are walking after their own will.

We are always choosing obedience (His will) or choosing disobedience (our will). There is no in between.

I don't know why this is so hard. He gives us grace to choose His will and we should not spurn His grace by choosing our will, instead.


 2011/8/1 13:42Profile

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