I agree with Bro. Mike on the way in which some folks are not really ministering. As I have watched Bro. Jesse's ministry I am encouraged that his ministry is different in that His heart is to really win souls. I see this also in Bro. Josh (Oarsman). I do not know the folks in question and I hope thay they were trying to be sincere and really minister. I think also that having guys like Josh and Jesse holding seminars or sharing their experiences is a tremendous help. I have been very blessed by what they are doing and plan to have Bro. Jesse come and minister to our youth when we can work out the details. Next time I'm in CA I would like to go to the park to see where Bro. Josh ministers to the homeless.

Lets pray that God will give these folks in question great wisdom to operate in their ministry. You can never have too much wisdom.

God Bless,

-Robert

_________________
Robert Wurtz II

I have to be honest with this discussion and share some feelings, whether anyone cares or not.

Let me give you some background. About 14 years ago, I was very involved with "pro-life" ministry., ie picketing, sidewalk counseling, blocking clincs, and exposing the dark evil deeds of baby killing in abortion clinics. Some have called this "hateful" on part of Christians and not of the will of God and not being "nice" and ministering to the needs of these women in a crisis pregnancy. Has this stopped the evil in this land of baby killing, no. Has it saved some babies from death? yes, Have some women come to know the Lord through this method of ministry, yes. And many people still do today.

Do some people, christians included, disagree with "pro-life" ministry, yes. Did I believe I was obeying God and doing His will? yes. Is the gospel being preached outside the walls of our churches in this type of ministry, yes.

Many people from opposing sides when I used to picket or pray or whatever at abortion clinics would say things like, "go back to your prayer closet, or go back to your church" and get off the streets!

I guess what I am saying is Michael Mcarvage and the other people went peacfully to ministry to homosexuals in bondage to their sin, where doing what they believed was the will of God by ministering to these people by telling them about their sin and sharing the good news of Jesus Christ and how He can free them from their sin. The problem is people love their sin and don't want to leave it and this makes people angry.

So what's my point? All forms of ministry must be done. Preaching on the streets, preaching at gay festivals, preaching or "ministering" to old people who are about to die in nursing homes, telling others about the good news, WHERE EVER THEY ARE GOING TO HEAR IT. And some people will never step foot in a church. So we need to not stay in our pews.

I have been on this site, and have been very convicted in my own life to get up and do some street evangelism, preaching, etc. and now I hear the opposite from many on this site about it not being the will of God??? I just don't understand why this is being discussed and said that what the Philadelphia 11 said was not the will of God. You can disagree, many disagreed with me when I was exposing the murdering of unborn babies, but I'm sure the babies who are alive today would disagree.

Enough said for now.

Grace,
Doug

_________________
a Jesus freak

http://www.operationrescue.org/archives/000144.shtml

Christmas Baby Saved

December 21, 2004

Wichita, KS -- Operation Rescue missionary Jeff Herzog reports that a baby was saved on Christmas Monday because of one of Operation Rescue’s signs. A Kansas couple came to George Tiller’s Women’s Health Care Services, the largest late-term abortion mill outside Communist China, for an abortion of their 5-month old pre-born child. One of the sidewalk counselors talked to the couple, who noticed the large sign that read, “Tiller the Killer Strikes Again. Butchers women. Butchers babies. Who's next?” with the enlarged photo of him unloading a botched abortion victim from the ambulance at Wesley Hospital. She explained to the couple that, in addition to the death of the baby, women have been seriously hurt by botched abortions at that abortion mill.

The couple agreed to go next door to the Choices Medical Clinic, a pro-life center that offers alternatives to abortion. They received a free, 3-D ultrasound and discovered that their baby was a little boy. They decided against abortion, but had pre-paid nearly $1,000 to the mill for the cost of the abortion.

The couple returned to Tiller’s to get their money back. They later explained to rescuers that while he did refund the full amount, Tiller tried to make them feel guilty about not having the abortion. He said, “You'll just go somewhere else to have the abortion.” But they told him, “No, we're keeping our baby.”

As the couple was leaving, sidewalk counselors gave them gifts of baby blankets and clothing. Ironically, while the couple was receiving their gifts, Tiller left the mill and saw the young mom and dad being ministered to by the rescuers who were standing next to the sign that displayed the Tiller mishap. One of the pro-lifers noticed Tiller muttering under his breath as he drove away, apparently none too happy that another one got away. But it was a wonderful Christmas present for the rescuers who rejoiced that a precious life was spared!


==========================================

What then if one of the homosexual's at the Outfest was convicted of their sin and came over
to one of the Christians and asked for "ministry"?

Or what if someone who was convicted of sin came over to speak to Ray Comfort or Jesse or ?? is that not effective minsitry on the street? What is nobody was on the streets with the Word of God? Who is to speak the gospel of Jesus to them and how?

_________________
a Jesus freak

_________________
Robert Wurtz II

_________________
Dennis Green

_________________
Dennis Green

"by dougkristen on 2004/12/22 10:49:11

I have to be honest with this discussion and share some feelings, whether anyone cares or not.

Let me give you some background. About 14 years ago, I was very involved with "pro-life" ministry., ie picketing, sidewalk counseling, blocking clincs, and exposing the dark evil deeds of baby killing in abortion clinics. Some have called this "hateful" on part of Christians and not of the will of God and not being "nice" and ministering to the needs of these women in a crisis pregnancy. Has this stopped the evil in this land of baby killing, no. Has it saved some babies from death? yes, Have some women come to know the Lord through this method of ministry, yes. And many people still do today.

Do some people, christians included, disagree with "pro-life" ministry, yes. Did I believe I was obeying God and doing His will? yes. Is the gospel being preached outside the walls of our churches in this type of ministry, yes.

Many people from opposing sides when I used to picket or pray or whatever at abortion clinics would say things like, "go back to your prayer closet, or go back to your church" and get off the streets!

I guess what I am saying is Michael Mcarvage and the other people went peacfully to ministry to homosexuals in bondage to their sin, where doing what they believed was the will of God by ministering to these people by telling them about their sin and sharing the good news of Jesus Christ and how He can free them from their sin. The problem is people love their sin and don't want to leave it and this makes people angry.

So what's my point? All forms of ministry must be done. Preaching on the streets, preaching at gay festivals, preaching or "ministering" to old people who are about to die in nursing homes, telling others about the good news, WHERE EVER THEY ARE GOING TO HEAR IT. And some people will never step foot in a church. So we need to not stay in our pews.

I have been on this site, and have been very convicted in my own life to get up and do some street evangelism, preaching, etc. and now I hear the opposite from many on this site about it not being the will of God??? I just don't understand why this is being discussed and said that what the Philadelphia 11 said was not the will of God. You can disagree, many disagreed with me when I was exposing the murdering of unborn babies, but I'm sure the babies who are alive today would disagree.

Enough said for now.

Grace,
Doug""

----------------------------------------
WELL SAID!

_________________
Dennis Green

Quote:
I have no idea about these folks so I am only speaking in general terms. .... I suppose we can do the same also. Yet, the effectiveness and the perception of Christians is at stake. Jesus was confrontational, but not unnecessarily mean or abusive. There was a purpose in all He did. A.W. Tozer once said that Truth preached by bad men is worse than error. I have seen it myself. There must be sincerity or their will be unnecessary problems. We must let the Gospel do the offending and not add to that offense by acting out of character as Christians. But, as for ministry, more is better.

God Bless,

-Robert Quote"
---------------------------------------

Friend,

I'm not saying that you are doing this or not, but I often see Christians looking for the worst in a situation. What I mean is this. I was at the event in question. The believers were above repraoch. The world condemns us for what we did and often many in the church follow suit for no good reason.

When I post about things I have seen or ministry outreaches I have been involved in, my word can be trusted and I think we should give fellow believers (the Philadelphia 11 for instance) the benefit of the doubt until we have reason to pass judgement on them.

Just for the record, so that people on this site won't question the motives of those arrested, I will tell you that the only thing that drove them onto the street that day was a desire to see people set free from sin. Each of the individuals arrested are close friends of mine and I have ministered with them in many places over the years. The motives were pure and the technique was very Biblical.

_________________
Dennis Green

and as I was reading it, the Holy Ghost spoke to me clearly, one of the things I do is write letters to unsaved sinners that I know, or to infamous unsaved sinners as the Lord leads. What homosexual group is the lead persecutor in this case? and what is the leaders names. I wanna write them a letter of Jesus love, as the Lord leads..or anybody else that feels such Leading. A letter is different, a letter means you can read it in the quiet of ones chambers, away from the noise of the crowd, and the imperative of having to "perform"..ie...show how opposed one is to those "awful" Christians...instead they are given the type of letter a blood brother would write to them. Its seed planting for sure...but just a thought.

God bless you Denny.

Hi Denny,

Your contribution is well received as it sheds much light on what really happened with the particular situation. I take you at your word.

My general comments still stand. They are not intended to be judgmental. Don't be offended at what I am saying. Beyond the four walls ministries is at the very core of my calling in Christ. I encourage everyone to minister in this capacity as they have opportunity.

God Bless,

-Robert

_________________
Robert Wurtz II