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"It is my understanding that demons in cases of demon possession occupies the body but in doing so it has to bind the human soul and spirit that the demoniacs present with a new personality and those bizarre psychological and physical manifestations."
This refers to 'demon possession'. I am aware that some believe that christians can be possessed and that they have rather different definition of demon possession.
Mat 12:29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house and spoil his goods, unless first he binds the strong one, and then he will plunder his house.
Who is in control of one's body or self if he is not possessed?_ and unless the demon put that in bondage how can it manifest.
Even in cases of 'demonic oppression', there is a bondage whether through temptations, false accusations, confusion, fear, or deception.
| 2011/8/2 22:32||Profile|
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Of course we are suppose to be in control of all of our faculties and we surrender them to the service of the Lord. Even as we surrender them to God's service, we are the ones in control of our faculties. God does not take us over. We work with Him aligning our wills with His.
So, you did not really answer the question about "binding the human soul and spirit". And that's ok. I don't know anyone that actually knows the mechanics that take place when a demon takes advantage of the open door that is presented to him by a Believer in disobedience and rebellion.
Yes, there are bondages of the mind when believing lies and accusations. There is the bondage of fear and deception that can maim believers.
But, if it is true that demons look for a body as it appears in scripture, does that mean that they know that they cannot have a man's spirit but will settle for the body? That can brin tremendous oppression upon his soul and spirit.
Especially since he that is joined to the Lord is joined to Him in his spirit.
I think Satan is jealous and that he wants all praise and honor and glory. But he cannot be joined to a Believer in the realm of his spirit (that is where we have sweet communion with God). At best he can only try to enter the body if the right door is open to him such as porn or adultery or fornication or even habitual thoughts of hatred and bitterness which could lead to thoughts of murder. Remember, every physical act always takes place in the heart, first.
So, he is jealous of our relationship with God and vice-versa and he could never hope to have such a oneness with humans. First of all, the relationship he wants with humans is not based on love and secondly, he is coercive and works through subterfuge and is manipulative and a liar. So, these are the ways he seeks to have a "relationship" with us, except this is no relationship at all. It is oppressive and dark and controlling and if he can get a small door opened in a believer's heart he will then seek to drive that believer into deeper and deeper sin and thus bring in more of his friends.
This is exactly what Israel's enemies did to them in the OT.
These tactics are common knowledge on how the enemy works and he does this whether you are saved or not saved.
What protects a Believer who, instead of "possessing His temple in honor", decides to "possess His temple in dishonor"?
Can a Believer sin in terrible and habitual ways and yet count on the Holy Spirit to continue to protect him/her?
I like Sarah's question earlier. Why did God let Israel's enemies invade their country when they had the Holy of Holies there? Why didn't God say, "Hey, I live here and since I am here, you cannot be here?"
And why did not God let the Philistines steal the Holy of Holies (His presence) out of Israel?
So, it seems that God did not lift a finger to stop their enemies who did battle and came in to possess Israel when they sinned.
So, why would God lift a finger and keep the enemy out today if his child decides to have an adulterous affair?
Does his child who is in sin get to still enjoy the protection of the Holy Spirit? Is not the Holy Spirit then complicit in this man's sin. Protecting him while he enjoys his sin. Do we have no responsibility in protecting our body. The Holy Spirit is protecting our spirit but I don't think He will protect our body regardless of what we do.
I say no. I say the Holy Spirit will let us suffer the consequences of our rebellion just like He allowed Israel to suffer the consequences.
There is nothing magical and automatic about having the Holy Spirit and then expecting him to protect you when you engage in gross sin. I think this is a deception in the church and many are believing in this false security and that is why they have no fear of God when it comes to walking after the flesh.
God knew how to put His fear into Israel. It was called being possessed by their enemies and having their lives ravaged and even destroyed.
God uses Satan the same way today to judge sin in His children and will use him to chastise his children. But we don't believe this so we have no fear of God today. We just believe all hardship is just a Job experience and we have no clue it is really about our sin.
We call ourselves blessed when Satan beats us up because of our theology. We say that we are just being persecuted for being a child of God when the real issue is our sin.
I know very few on this site believe this, but I find a perfect congruity between the OT and NT on this subject. And I see evidence all around me in the church today.
| 2011/8/2 23:40|
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"So, why would God lift a finger and keep the enemy out today if his child decides to have an adulterous affair?
Does his child who is in sin get to still enjoy the protection of the Holy Spirit? Is not the Holy Spirit then complicit in this man's sin. Protecting him while he enjoys his sin. Do we have no responsibility in protecting our body. The Holy Spirit is protecting our spirit but I don't think He will protect our body regardless of what we do."
I don't know if you have children, but will you easily give up your children just like that if they have offended you.
I know you don't mean any harm but these statements can misrepresent or be misrepresented.
I am sorry brother, I mean no offense, I am just bothered by what you said.
| 2011/8/3 0:17||Profile|
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Oh no, I am not saying that God will give us up. I am saying if you touch the fire you will get burned.
No offense at all taken. I know talking through text on a screen is very imperfect.
| 2011/8/3 0:53|
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A christian who is in adulterous affair is in danger of losing his salvation unless he repents, and may receive severe discipline from the Lord to save him from hell.
Likewise a christian who abuses his body may incur sickness
and injuries because of his foolishness.
But these don't mean that he has lost protection from the Lord though this verse maybe made to effect:
1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
| 2011/8/3 1:11||Profile|
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I have been concerned because we are talking about demonic bondage. Many christians who are in demonic oppression
especially those who are living in fear, anxiety, spiritual trauma, or panic are continually oppressed because they are confused about the lovingkindness or the gospel of God.
I know it could have started because of some sins they have committed and they got the full dose of them but now they long to go back to God but those demons won't just let them.
And we fast and pray, we rebuke, we preach the gospel, and rehabilitate the wounded.
| 2011/8/3 1:39||Profile|
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Well, passerby, we are not going to solve it but nice talking to you. I guess you just have to take it case by case and ask the Lord to help you.
| 2011/8/3 2:23|
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Ro 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
2Co 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
Php 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Col 1:10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
2Th 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
2Th 2:17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.
Yes He will chasteneth His own children.
Deuteronomy 8:5 Thou shalt also consider in thine heart, that, as a man chasteneth his son, so the LORD thy God chasteneth thee.
Proverbs 13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.
Hebrews 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Hebrews 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Who's are we? In Christ and Christ in us to do the work in our lives that is God's will. He will do it. We have nothing to do with satan unless God uses him for our benifit and chastening bringing us into conformity with Jesus Christ.
How much does this mean to you, "IN CHRIST"?
In Him that has overcome the world: Phillip
| 2011/8/3 4:49||Profile|
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We have nothing to do with satan unless God uses him for our benifit and chastening
We also have nothing to do with him unless we open doors to him through sin.
I believe that Satan has plenty to do with us if we open a door through rebellion to him. Not submitting to God is rebellion. Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft and it is what brought Lucifer down.
| 2011/8/3 10:23||Profile|
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Hi Christ in you,
I still havent seen your answer to my questions:
If demons have to leave at the point of Indwelling of the Holy Spirit,where are the demonic manifestations that would happen in some cases recorded in Scripture?or in experience?
What is the logic of casting out demons out of unsaved people?Christ and the disciples did it but the comforter had not come yet,so I can see why it happened before the cross but not after.
Also in regards to below where are the examples of scripture that say a demon could ever live in the spirit of an unsaved person?
(Believing that satan has access to the spirit that is Christs' is sin and giving satan his place in the believers life that Christ overcame at the Cross.)
| 2011/8/3 18:38||Profile|